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Post by JimRatliff on Jan 2, 2016 0:38:16 GMT -7
Heluva: I had an enlightening conversation (one sided) with Bob Hintermeister regarding 'concentric' and 'eccentric' muscle contraction. For a variety of reasons (mostly age and disc surgery related) it is really difficult for me to run, so I've been relying on biking for fitness. That addresses the cardio, but only provides 'concentric' muscle usage. I need to add something for next summer, as you have done.
Pugski. I think the biggest challenge for them will be size. In order to be profitable you need a lot of activity, and that requires a lot of people, but with a lot of people you lose the sense of community and knowing all the people you are talking to.
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Post by ToddW on Jan 4, 2016 16:41:41 GMT -7
Heluva,
Thanks for the response. What an amazing difference!
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Post by livingproof on Jan 4, 2016 17:29:04 GMT -7
Helluva Just curious about the impact of coaching between 13 and 15 had on your skiing. Just an assumption on my part, but, I would think there is a contribution from both coaching and conditioning. I remember being with you in January on 15 and there was a very marked positive difference in your body from when I saw you last in 13. At the Superbowl party you were wearing a tight shirt, and, I commented on your increased muscle mass. I believe you continued to get long distance coaching from Harald, to some extent more time in the system has to play a part. Some great skiing in your video. I am, somewhat, surprised by your continued presence in the Epic Instructional forum, but, smile at the "helluva" responses to the masses.
Jim, I don't know squat about concentric, ecentric and isometric muscle contractions. How do you balance bike riding? My aging knees were not real kind on the bike over the summer, perhaps, a carryover from ski season which tends to beat my knees up. My knees have been a limiting factor in preseason conditioning this year, paying much attention to form and keeping kneecap well behind toes during thigh muscle work.
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Post by HeluvaSkier on Jan 4, 2016 19:47:21 GMT -7
Heluva: I had an enlightening conversation (one sided) with Bob Hintermeister regarding 'concentric' and 'eccentric' muscle contraction. Most people do not make this distinction, and it is really important if you want to ski well with flexing. Harald and I have talked about this a lot. He often tells a story about when he was coaching an eventual U.S. Olympian in Alaska. The kid was the worst on the team during gym sessions when they would be doing box jumps. When it came time to squat, he was easily out-squatting the entire team with no trouble. This translated directly to the snow. The skier who was strong in a slow squat, was also the skier who could flex the deepest and hold momentum through the release... producing the fastest skiing on the team. For this reason, I put a lot of focus on maintaining very slow muscle contraction at very high weights in my squats, lunges and leg press. Skiing may be primarily aerobic, but once you reach a certain level, strength plays a big role.
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Post by HeluvaSkier on Jan 4, 2016 19:52:02 GMT -7
Helluva Just curious about the impact of coaching between 13 and 15 had on your skiing. Just an assumption on my part, but, I would think there is a contribution from both coaching and conditioning. I remember being with you in January on 15 and there was a very marked positive difference in your body from when I saw you last in 13. At the Superbowl party you were wearing a tight shirt, and, I commented on your increased muscle mass. I believe you continued to get long distance coaching from Harald, to some extent more time in the system has to play a part. Some great skiing in your video. I am, somewhat, surprised by your continued presence in the Epic Instructional forum, but, smile at the "helluva" responses to the masses. Thanks for the comments on my skiing. Conditioning was a huge part of this. Coaching was the same throughout the process - my same small circle I've had for years now (Harald, another PMTS coach, a local FIS/NCAA coach, an Aussie D-Team member and myself through hours of video analysis). The coaching message has been consistent. I got better at executing it... but I still have a lot to work on. I keep posting on EpicSki to remind all the so-called "pros" that any skier out there could easily ski circles around them for the cost of a $200 video camera on Amazon, $20 in late charges from their local library and a little bit of focused training. This is also a good message for skiers who go there to learn. They don't need to grovel to these so called pros who are spewing BS and looking for bigger tips and request-privates. The number of skiers and more importantly, parents of racers who reach out to me in private makes it worth-while. They see through the nonsense and want a better way for them or their kids.
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Post by HeluvaSkier on Jan 4, 2016 20:04:40 GMT -7
...and just got back to the gym tonight. It's going to be a long road back. Maybe I'll just start preparing for 2017 now.
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Post by JimRatliff on Jan 5, 2016 9:42:19 GMT -7
...and just got back to the gym tonight. It's going to be a long road back. Maybe I'll just start preparing for 2017 now. Heluva: I maintain that skiing at 90% (or even 70%) is still more fun than not skiing at all. And if that 90% is 90% of your normal ability, then most of us would die to ski that well. Let's view this glass as 90% full, not 10% empty.
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Post by JimRatliff on Jan 5, 2016 10:06:21 GMT -7
Jim, I don't know squat about concentric, ecentric and isometric muscle contractions. How do you balance bike riding? My aging knees were not real kind on the bike over the summer, perhaps, a carryover from ski season which tends to beat my knees up. My knees have been a limiting factor in preseason conditioning this year, paying much attention to form and keeping kneecap well behind toes during thigh muscle work. LP: Let me show off how much I've learned in the past 30 days. - Isometric: Muscle fibers contract, but the overall length of the muscle doesn't change. i.e. holding a weight immobile with a flexed bicep.
- Isotonic: Opposite of isometric, muscle fibres (or cells, I'm not sure) contract and the length of the muscle changes. i.e. holding a weight and flexing or unflexing the bicep.
- Concentric: Isotonic with the muscle getting shorter.
- Eccentric: Isotonic, but with the muscle getting longer. This is what was all new to me.
- And then there are "slo-twitch" and "fast-twitch" muscle fibers somehow involved in all of the above.
If you are doing curls, them curling the weight up is Concentric (the bicep is getting shorter), and then lowering the weight is Eccentric (the muscle fibers are still contracting, but the muscle itself is getting longer). The pretty interesting part is that Bob says that eccentric flexing can be even more powerful than concentric since the muscle is attempting to prevent damage to itself from overstretching. But he also feels that this use of the muscles needs to be reinforced in the nerve pathways (he also says that there is no such thing as muscle memory, but that the pathway for many muscle activities is only nerve->spinal cord->muscle rather than nerve->spinal cord->brain->spinal cord-> muscle. Sounds almost like the spinal cord is a cache memory and i/o processor for the CPU brain.
We have all felt this on a larger scale when jogging (or even walking) downhill. Each step is like falling forward and letting the leg "absorb" the force by flexing a little bit, and then flexing more to "fall" forward into the next step. This is "eccentric" muscle contraction, the muscle is resisting external forces trying to stretch the muscle and collapse the leg.
As I understand it, bicycle riding is virtually all Concentric flexing. As we push the pedal down the muscles shorten (quad and hamstring?) to extend the leg. As the pedal comes back up, other muscles contract to actively shorten the leg so that the foot isn't resisting the pedaling. But this flexing is different from walking down the hill where the "leg extension" muscle group is actively resisting the flexing of the leg.
I started biking for non-impact aerobic benefit and it provides that (40 pounds lost, better blood pressure, pulse rate, and cholesterol), but I see now that it's not a complete replacement for walking/running/squats/lunges/etc. I don't have Heluva's goals or commitment to a weight room, but I will probably start walking DOWN the stairs on a regular basis along with some light weight lunges (squats feel like they would be hard on my knees).
FWIW, the only time I have problems with my knees when biking is when I start muscle'ing the pedals rather than pedaling at a faster cadence with less discernible muscle effort (and checking alignment, especially that the knee is over/behind the ball of the foot when the pedal is parallel with the ground). Of course, the reality is that our bodies have accumulated some wear and tear over the years that kids like Heluva haven't encountered yet.
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Post by JimRatliff on Jan 5, 2016 10:34:30 GMT -7
I will say that I was at Snowbasin early in the season before the Utah Olympics and international teams were training for the 2002 Olympics downhill course. The quads and thighs on these guys and girls was staggering. Anyone that believes that high level skiing is only aerobic hasn't looked to see what the worlds best look like, and those muscles didn't just appear on morning.
Not at all like Lance or any other accomplished bike racer, even though a high level bikers legs do more "work" in a day than a skier.
Ohh, and at that time the "base area" was a couple of trailers with porta potties in an adjacent trailer. The opulent lodges and restrooms didn't appear until the following year, barely in time for the Olympics.
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Post by ToddW on Jan 5, 2016 16:07:09 GMT -7
I don't have Heluva's goals or commitment to a weight room, but I will probably start walking DOWN the stairs on a regular basis along with some light weight lunges (squats feel like they would be hard on my knees). Jim, If you want to turn walking down the stairs to skiing advantage, change the way you walk down them. Treat each step down as a mini / short range one-legged squat. In other words, while everyone else is busy bending their feet and springing off the ball of the foot to get to the next stair, try to keep your heel fully planted until the next the next foot is fully lowered and planted. And descent about 1/3 as fast as everyone else. You'll learn something about foot pullback and engaging the hamstrings, and the less you use the handrail the more you'll learn about balancing on one leg while flexing. If you practice this for a month, you won't make Heluvaskier's trademark turns but you will flex deeper and faster with less effort and better fore-aft when just cruising; also, weighted releases will come more naturally to you. Walking down stairs like this is gentle enough that it shouldn't mess with your knees, other than maybe the first time while you figure things out. Remember, many recreational skiers never routinely flex even 4 inches. You'll hit 4 inches of flexion without even thinking after doing this long enough. That's enough to create some decent turns on blue and green terrain. Have fun in Colorado! -Todd
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