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Post by JimRatliff on Jan 22, 2014 13:26:49 GMT -7
i was assuming Johnny2R was talking about those places where you are just following 2 ruts in the snow created by the people that traversed ahead of you, often with little gulleys where you go down and then right back up a foot or three. I'm thinking of the access to Ballroom at Alta where the access is harder than the slope once you drop in. I like Perry's idea, and I would even "pizza" if that was what I felt most comfortable with. Drifting a bit on one ski or the other would my first choice, but I also try to wait on others until I can get a cushion of space around me.
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Post by ToddW on Jan 22, 2014 18:49:51 GMT -7
Why is it I always seem to be on the traverse behind someone who should be back on the bunny slope? Hey, Jim. No talking about fellow forum members. In everyone's mind here, I was a mighty titan of the skiing world ... until you described my skiing above. Oh the shame!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 20:09:43 GMT -7
i was assuming Johnny2R was talking about those places where you are just following 2 ruts in the snow created by the people that traversed ahead of you, often with little gulleys where you go down and then right back up a foot or three. I'm thinking of the access to Ballroom at Alta where the access is harder than the slope once you drop in. Yeah, I think those are exactly the places Johnny means. There is a traverse at the back side of Louise like that, accessing the Rock Garden. Narrow track (not a cat track), 2 ruts, tight trees, no room to make a new track (too steep on either side), no room to side slip or wedge or anything else. I hate it. But the Rock Garden is magic once you're in it. It sounds nasty, but it's pretty cool. And Todd, for the record, that makes two of us. I've never done that traverse without having someone whacking into the tails of my skis. Some even have the nerve to cuss at me, the philistines! I'm going to bring along a bag of sand and sprinkle it behind me as I creep along...that should slow 'em down.
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Post by johnny2r on Jan 23, 2014 2:24:06 GMT -7
Yes, that's exactly the kind of traverse I'm talking about. I'd love to have a chance to try any of P J Jones' admirable repertoire of turn types there - but there's simply no room to make any kind of turn. The only plus point I can think of of such runs is that when you finally do get to the chopped up steep cruddy pitch which turns out to be what's at the end of the track, instead of the nice untracked powder slope you were hoping for, it all seems so refreshingly easy after the journey!
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Post by JimRatliff on Jan 23, 2014 6:28:52 GMT -7
I'm something of a PMTS devotee, although very far from being an expert skier, but this is a technique question which doesn't really relate to PMTS so I thought I'd ask it over here instead. I've been learning how to ski powder, crud, etc., to cope with the conditions I come across going off-piste. But one thing I don't recall seeing any tips about is how to deal with the long, fast traverses you often end up doing when you're skiing away from the pistes over to the softer snow playgrounds. You end up flying along a narrow rutted track which has been gouged out by other skiers, which is often bumpy and icy and which rattles your bones! I've never been wholly confident about my speed control under such circumstances, my ability to stop quickly if there's suddenly a hazard like a fallen skier in the way. There is absolutely no room to put in any turns, and there's not often not even enough width to utilize a slight drifting side slip, or a snowplough. And given that these traverses often go across seriously steep pitches, falling is seldom a good idea. So how do other people deal with this kind of thing? Prayer? Svend just answered this. You carry a bag of sand (or kitty litter) and you throw it out in front of you whenever you want to show down.
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Post by livingproof on Jan 23, 2014 11:12:54 GMT -7
A timely topic as nest week starts my western trip and such traverses exist in both Alta and Snowbird. My appetite for crossing very steep pitches in bumpy traverses is decreasing. From a technique perspective, it's pretty straight forward, stay counterbalanced and keep your upper body facing downhill, but, yes, speed, ice and stability do become an issue. At least for me, the challenge is much more mental than physical and those issues are not so easily addressed. Start with something manageable such as crossing mogul fields, learning to absorb with the legs and go up from there.
Johhny, are you person who HH is giving a very hard time on his forum?
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Post by superbman on Jan 23, 2014 12:13:50 GMT -7
I have skied that Baldy traverse as well:
1. First time, back in the early 2000's when I was new to skiing I crossed my tips midway and face planted, painfully AND caused a slowing of the train. Same day I was near the first when they dropped the ropes on the climb/traverse to Devil's castle, withing seconds there was a crowd behind me making slow moving cattle sounds (literally, mooing). That was quite an education in all the OTHER things you need to know about navigating a big alpine ski area.
2. Second visit (maybe in 2006-7) I did much better on that traverse, but I had another painful mishap on the long traverse to High Rustler, I took off my skis to scramble up one of the last pitches, and fell trying to put them back on and slid down a scree field (about 30 feet before I arrested my fall! Actually, that was both frightening as well as painful and embarassing!).
3. 3rd visit (a few years ago) I had learned a good deal of survival maneuvers, sustained wedging, climbing/ hiking tricks. None of it was easy, but I avoided face planting and holding up the wagon train too much. For a Flat land warrior, I'll take it! FWIW, it is actually more fun to hike up to the Baldy chutes and ski down to Wild cat or the Balll room (just be careful crossing the traverse line!!!). You know, that's one of the nice things about snowbird over alta, you get off of the tram and all the killer terrain is BELOW you and pretty easy to ski to (but not necessarily easy to ski down).
HH is giving someone a hard time? No way!
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Post by ron on Jan 23, 2014 13:31:42 GMT -7
Y es, that's exactly the kind of traverse I'm talking about. I'd love to have a chance to try any of P J Jones' admirable repertoire of turn types there - but there's simply no room to make any kind of turn. The only plus point I can think of of such runs is that when you finally do get to the chopped up steep cruddy pitch which turns out to be what's at the end of the track, instead of the nice untracked powder slope you were hoping for, it all seems so refreshingly easy after the journey! I figured that's what you were talking about. That "is" was a real traverse is. Basically most are luges. Rutted, twisty and no real options but to ride them. you can use this for skiing tight "luged-out" trees too. OK, so a couple of things. First, try to see as much ahead as possible to understand and plan. Don't sit back, get stacked with some pressure on the front of the boots for control. Hands more front and keep the pole plants coming Speed control. This gets tricky, in some cases, you will find yourself needing speed to get up some inclines so again, try to see whats going on. So where you do need true speed control, you can wedge your skis and use an arresting pole plant a lot like what Sven said but you can modify and absorb as you plant and plant to each apex (farthest outside and inside of each "S" turn)side of the twisting turn; you will be amazed how much more control you have. Next is to let your skis go wide enough to hit either side of the track if there's any loose or piled snow. The other thing is to stay loose and absorb with your legs (flexion and extension)like you ski bumps with a strong pole plant if its gets rolling on you. Whatever you do, don't freeze up! Stay dynamic and keep the head and body moving towards where ever you need to go. pole plant!
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Post by johnny2r on Jan 23, 2014 14:14:21 GMT -7
Thanks, Ron, some great tips there. I'll get the chance to try them out in a few days in Alagna, Italy. Fabulous area, huge mass of lift-served off-piste - but with challenging traverses here and there, as I recall from last time.
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Post by ron on Jan 24, 2014 5:00:21 GMT -7
One last thing that is really important from a safety POV. if you are skiing with others, make sure you space the line. Too often there is not enough space between skiers and collisions occur or someone has to to bail to avoid a crash. Make sure those in front are communicating to those behind. If you are "in the line" stop in an open area, somewhere that you can be seen, giving the skier behind you enough time to react, stop or slow down.
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