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Post by livingproof on Nov 13, 2013 17:46:33 GMT -7
Some may remember that last season, I bought Head Rev 85 Pro's as my forever western ski. This season, while I will still be in Pa., the Rev's will be hitting the slopes of Oregon. My decision to part with them is centered in fact they are just to close to my eastern daily driver, the Hart Pulse. The Pulse just does more to make me smile, I like quick edge changes and narrower skis. That is not a knock on the Rev 85 Pro's which happen to be getting some very nice press on Epic. Over the past few seasons, I searched to expand my quiver, always with the same result of selling off wider skis. My present thinking is to stay with my Pulse skis for the season, and, that means bringing them to Colorado and Utah for the Epic Gathering in early February. It's goofy to continue to make the same reach for a different ski when my history brings me back to narrow skis.
On the other hand, I do have a very nice unused shop credit at Start Haus from the Rev sale. My new signature will be "I can resist anything, except temptation".
Hmmmm....thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 9:08:35 GMT -7
Perhaps a lighter pair of wider skis would suit better? Not sure what you had before your previous two pairs (Rev 85; Sultan 94), but they were both pretty substantial, and certainly heavier than some others out there in that width range. Maybe a lighter pair would be more to your liking? Quicker edge-to-edge, easier on the knees (IIRC, this is an issue for you...correct?). I am thinking Atomic Theory, Nordica Steadfast, Fischer Watea 88....something like that. Whaddya think? Mounted with a light plate or Power Rail type binding to give more stand height, might work better for you....?
Just throwing it out there....
EDIT: Mike, just to help us out a bit, perhaps you could let us know what it was about the wider skis that didn't work for you? Cumbersome, lacking agility? Slow edge to edge? Too tiring? Knee pain? Any background info from you would allow others to sort this out better for you and focus on the problems.
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Post by gary on Nov 14, 2013 13:45:23 GMT -7
Hey Mike..the assumption I'm making is that we're talking about a versatile daily driver for you when you ski out west.....having said that....
I think first thing to determine:
1) Where you're going to be skiing out west...if it's moslyt groomers, your Harts will be fine ( Harts 124 77 110 I believe)
If you want to ski on 4-6 inch pow day and only ski for 90 minutes in nice fresh unbroken snow, your Harts will be fine.
If you're skiing after 90 minutes and the snow is now piling up, broken, and there's bumps...I'd highly highly highly recommend something softer, wider and more forgiving.
It's not that you can't ski them with the Harts...a little more width and softer underfoot makes it so much easier on the body, builds more confidence, and I think just makes it more fun.
Would love to see you demo something in the 88-95 range underfoot.
Products from Head, Kastle, Atomic, Rossignol...
Your thoughts Mike? G
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Post by livingproof on Nov 14, 2013 17:51:10 GMT -7
Svend, Let me start by stating that my normal ski environment is a 1000 ft. hill at the southern edge of skiing on the east coast. Our daily conditions are groomers and some very icy bumps. My traditional style of skiing is to make shorter radius turns trying to get edge angles, blasting GS turns on my home mountain only gets you to the lift quicker. I get charged by the technical aspects of skiing. My Pulse and Supershapes skis are heavy, I don't feel ski weight when I ski. I do like getting on edge quickly. If I skied at a big mountain that was subject to much more varied conditions, then, my thinking about skis would change as I skied in crud more. So, I find wide skis dull, they are ok if you just stand and ride them, but, that's not how I want to ski. One area of my skiing that needs improvement is in crud with bumps. To some extent, increasing fatigue is an issue as I age, high short duration workloads bother me now, far more than 5 years ago. But, I'm in the gym working out.
Gary, We all dream of the powder day when our normal ski just does not cut it. My recent experience in the west is that those days are mostly dreams out there too. Again, if one spends more days in a powder environment, experiencing the conditions, then it make sense to react with a different type of ski. Perhaps, I need to try softer skis and see what happens. My life has been on stiffer skis, and, knee pain from an 88 stiff ski caused me to change. From pictures of my Tahoe trip 2 years ago, it's apparent that I spent too much time in the backseat and overstressed my knees. So, technique has a component in my ski selection.
What does change this year is that my Utah trip is in peak powder, full winter mode. Anyway, part of my plan is to get to our local demo day early in January and concentrate on softer 90ish skis. Phil and Ron like the new Solly Q 90, so that will be on my list, but, the conditions for my demo are not what I hope to experience in Aspen and Utah. It's very difficult to escape from my normal environment when thing about skis.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 10:10:51 GMT -7
Hey Mike,
I was a doubter about light-weight skis having enough substance to hold a guy of my height and weight (6'2"; 220 lbs), and have always preferred burly skis (still do) like the Mythic Rider, Mach 3, Sultan 94. But one run on an Atomic Nomad Blackeye last year totally blew away all my preconceived ideas. I swapped into these from my Mythics, and was expecting a wimpy noodle. Not so. That ski simply ripped. I found myself flying down a groomer at crazy speeds, but the ski was smooth as silk and totally calm. No problem getting it way over on edge and pushing it. Torsionally very solid. Agile and quick, too, but clearly capable of high performance when asked.
The Atomic Theory is in the same line as the Blackeye -- the Vantage series -- but wider at 95mm. It has been getting great reviews.
If you have never been on a ski like that, it would be well worth a demo. Nordica's Sidecountry series is similar (Steadfast, Hell & Back, etc.), and is equally well regarded. I have no experience with Salomon, so can't comment on those. I think Ron knows a bit about Nordica's range, as he owns a pair or two. Would be worth a consult....
You never know....there has got to be 90mm ski out there with your name on it.
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Post by gary on Nov 15, 2013 10:56:00 GMT -7
Well then Mike....I wasn't really focusing in on just the pow days...
What about the days when there's pushed up piles, broken snow a plenty, heavy wet piles of crud...( not that THAT happens to often)
I'm only saying I think something in the 85-95 range is going to make wider skis, less nervous to the edges, much more compliant and LESS exhausting.
LIKE THIS FOR EX: New for this year Head Rev 90.... for one would love to see you demo this ski!
REV 90
Finesse: A+
Power: A+
Sidecut: 136/91/117
Radius: 16.6m @ 177cm
Lengths:149,156,163
170,177,184
MSRP: $700
Rev 90early rise
There’s an old adage that inside every portly person is a skinny one. We’re not certain if that’s true, but we do believe that inside the wider All-Mountain East skis lives the spirit of a narrower Frontside carver.
The carving pedigree of the Head Rev 90 shines through despite its girth due to a dual sidecut that pulls you into a turn as quickly as a cobra’s strike. This sort of carving power is often overbearing and intolerant of irregular terrain, but the Rev 90 is notable for its willingness to take its snow-slashing technique off-road.
It earned its position at the top of our Finesse standings the old-fashioned way: it made quality skiing feel easy and unstressful. The rockered forebody does its job of rolling over whatever it encounters without losing connection to the snow when you tip into the turn. If a rockered ski that hooks up easily and early sounds like an anomaly, it is, which is what makes the Rev 90 such an exemplary ride.
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Post by JimRatliff on Nov 15, 2013 16:30:51 GMT -7
LivingProof: I'm kinda with you on this. You have a pretty wide pair of skis (77mm used to be really wide, so let's not drink too much "wder is better" kool-aid) that sound like they serve you well for 90% of your ski days. That's good. I was skiing in 14" of surprise powder last year and doing pretty good down in the snow on my 72mm waisted skis, until Lynn asked me to stop for a picture. Whoops - nice picture, but too flat and deep to get going again. So it's not as if you have to stay if bed if there happes to be a powder day??
But I will also say that 2 or 3 years ago we hit the jackpot. Deep, fresh snow every time we went out west, and having wide skis along made it a lot more fun.
My skis: Fischer Progressor 8 - 72mm Head Peak 84 - 84mm Ullr's Chariot - 101mm
Especially here in the east, I often just take the Peak 84 for whatever the conditions might be.
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Post by gary on Nov 15, 2013 16:58:47 GMT -7
Jim....skiing low angle pow is sooooo much fun with the right ski on. A little more float...less worries about stoping..heehee!
I have found over and over again that the narrower ski is certainly ski able....as example and test I skied my Elan Amphibio 12 at 74 underfoot at Lake Louise in some heavy boot high fresh and broken snow last season...I could ski the run but after 3 runs...I was plum wore out.I went back for my 84's.
THe wider ski just made it that much less work, less twitchy.
I can also add skiing in those conditions with soft edges...more scarve or pivot than carve is primarily how I ski those conditions...Mike may ultmately prefer to hard carve each turn with as much edge angle as possible. In that scenario....I'd stay with a ski in the 70's and go slice and dice.
I guess it truly boils down to what your skiing style is and how comfortable one is in changing technique for 3D snow.
Best, G
Qualifer: I'd like to add truthfully...I've become more of a 3 person ski in part for me it just makes skiing the variety of snow i get to ski easier. Not everyone will take that away from adding a wider rider. I think the key is to demo for a few days in 3d snow. Given ones ski style preference, see if it really makes a difference at all.
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Post by superbman on Nov 16, 2013 6:21:14 GMT -7
The Pulses are great skis…how long are they? My thought is, in big western spaces a LONGER SKI adds a good deal more stability at speed than just a fatter ski. Not crazy long, mind you, but closer 180cm or better will make a big difference at Snowbird.
And that's from a guy whose two main skis this season will average 163.5 cms! BUT, I still have the howitzer in a 186cm.
There are lots and lots of wonderful skis out there…and I am sounding like a broken record with this, but I really recommend anyone (especially men over 42 and any adult women) to at least try one of k2's 2013-2014 skis. The Rictor 90 xti and 82xti are, honestly, fabulous skis. I know K2's 'big market popularity' gets sneers on focused ski forums, BUT, you can find great deals on these skis (and find them to demo) many, many places. IF, I were buying a bigger ski to compliment a traditional board like the Pulse, the Rictor 90xti in a 177cm would be at the very top of my list (and the 170cm would too).
I love the shamans but they are an acquired taste and I only recommend them to specific folks. But, the New K2's, especially the two upper end Rictors XTI take every single ski advancement of the last 12 years, and serve up very capable front solid skis that are at home on any steep or deep slope in America. The 'super' line of ladies skis are also excellent, and even their carving skis have gotten great. There's a reason skis like the Recon were ubiquitous…they know what they are doing, and don't conflate the 'rad' punk segment of their ski lines with the overall focus and quality of their sticks. Just saying.
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Post by JimRatliff on Nov 16, 2013 13:54:08 GMT -7
5 years ago I would try to rent fat skis on a powder day (or even before) and it was difficult. The metronome has now swung to the other side, it's hard to rent a narrow ski. Renting a wider ski if necessary to go with the Pulse's would be easy.
Gary, your 3 ski comment reminded me of another thread I wanted to start. I too am a three ski guy, with a niche that each ski addresses. New thread to follow.
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