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Post by JimRatliff on Sept 6, 2014 10:50:28 GMT -7
Dan: Well said. Long ago John Botti showed HH stuff to a friend with World Cup experience. The guy affirmed the movements
Harald's contribution, I believe, is the teaching progression and, for me, the clarity of explanation in the books (including what others were teaching). (Oh, and boot alignment). He writes in a way that made it easy for me to understand, even though doing was a still hard.
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Post by superbman on Sept 6, 2014 12:05:46 GMT -7
Yeah, I figured they had a conscious application of HH's stuff, and like I said, the regional buzz is really, really positive on the race program. I've never skied Waterville, my impression has been it's like Stratton with even more grooming, but that's based on anecdote and hearsay. How is Waterville as a Ski Area?? I ski so rarely in NH as it is. Basically, I make a Tuckerman trip about once every two years, and hit Cannon when conditions appear optimum (also about once every two years). Waterville worth a visit? What's it like if any of you guys and gals know? Yay! A question I'm qualified to answer! Waterville is an awesome training hill, but it's not really a destination hill if you just want to ski. The people are way nicer than at Stratton and the trails are cut better, but it's groomer-heavy, and you won't ever get it confused with Cannon/Mittersill. I spent a few seasons skiing there every weekend, and don't think it's really your style. I think you could have fun if conditions everywhere were firm and a storm was coming in Saturday night, though. Hit Waterville and ski groomers Saturday, stay in the valley and enjoy the food and people, and then head to Cannon for a powder Sunday. Might be worth a shot to check it out, and see all the little rippers flying around. It's cool to see so many small people skiing so darned well. One thing I also like about Waterville is that there's no speed limit, as long as you're in control. There are so many good racers flying around on GS skis, skiing fast is just normal there. I've never had a patroller wave at me to slow down. It's nice. Regarding the application of HH's stuff, I'm not sure that's the best way to describe what's happening. My impression is that, in that world, it's not really "HH's stuff" so much as principles of good skiing that HH and some of his peers, who are experts in their own right, agree on. They may be stoked that HH consolidated a lot of it and put it into one book so they don't have to refer to an entire bookshelf as much anymore, but I wouldn't really describe it as HH leading the charge with a bunch of disciples behind him, as it seems to be in the recreational skiing world. As HH says, PMTS isn't a new way to ski; it's simply his way of describing and teaching what would otherwise probably be called "good skiing". I think what makes him and his stuff unique is that he's so focused on and accessible to recreational skiers. Racers in great programs already have access to this stuff; it's the rest of us he's helping. No comments on the PSIA/USSA thing. That debate is way beyond my pay grade. Dan, Reading your comments on Waterville, You really ought to come ski at Berkshire East. Similar Vibe: Great Grooming, big race program, very friendly clientele…but with glades and bumps (conditions permitting of course), oh, and not as fancy but also a lot cheaper (though the new lodge and Crazy Horse lounge is pretty stellar). Racing is dominant at our mountain and it does affect the general culture of the skiing in a very positive way. Yeah, you know, contrary to popular opinion, I love skiing groomers, BUT, I can ski top-notch groomers 30 minutes from my house at B'East, and they are never, never crowded. So, I wouldn't ever drive further and spend more to chase that down. You can ski pretty fast here as well (and people do, the race culture, good skills and low skier density allows for this…except one beginner trails or near the base area for obvious reasons). Your take on the HH stuff sounds right to me.
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Post by danboisvert on Sept 7, 2014 18:20:19 GMT -7
I guess the part I left out was that I was skiing at Waterville a ton when I had friends there to ski and hang out with, but haven't been there hardly at all in the past couple years. Vermont is a lot closer for me, so I've been doing that a lot more, and spending more time at Magic and points north. Berkshire East is a nice little hill, and I've had decent days there. I've just always had better days at Magic, so I typically drive the extra 30 minutes. I could see that changing if I lived as close to Charlemont as you do, though. It's got to be nice to be that close to skiing. I'll let you know if I make it up that way this year; it'd be fun to make a few turns together again.
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Post by superbman on Sept 8, 2014 4:11:34 GMT -7
I love Magic, And some of the crew Patrols there Thursday/ Friday (I might join them this season…). Conditions are exceedingly hit or Miss (basically being the 'southern Mad River' there is a lot of 'miss') But, When it's good, it's great. Now that I think about it, the only time I've skied with you was at Magic, and that was a slushy-powder day, a Sunday and No one (I mean No one) was there. It was a real good day.
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Post by livingproof on Sept 9, 2014 5:45:05 GMT -7
One thing I also like about Waterville is that there's no speed limit, as long as you're in control. There are so many good racers flying around on GS skis, skiing fast is just normal there. I've never had a patroller wave at me to slow down. It's nice. Dan, One aspect of skiing that scares me is racers doing GS speeds on trails open to the general public. It's among the reasons why I avoid weekend skiing at my home hill. Especially in the early part of the season, limited terrain and high skier density is an accident waiting to happen. Our junior race teams wear distinctive "Blue Mountain Racing" team jacket, and, IMHO, they are dangerous. The racer community constantly complains about the skiing of others (especially boarders) while on black terrain, but, they contribute more than their share of issues. Control at speed is a fragile when others come into your intended line and once your at 40 mph there is not a lot of time or space to get back into control. Perhaps I'm more sensitive to this issue at my mountain has narrow trails and high skier density. Frequently, I can hear them coming from behind, I just pray that something does not happen and am relieved when they pass. Liam, how does the patrol handle high speed at your Beast home mountain?
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Post by superbman on Sept 9, 2014 8:43:47 GMT -7
I'll be honest LP, it's not a big problem with racers or in general. The biggest offenders are the weeknight high-school groups. And the problem is that the slopes are steep (the upper half) they are also relatively uncrowded (and groomed) so they are very comfortable wailing down the hill, the problem is they can't ski and are flying at the very edge of control (in fact. often well past it). And honestly, call it an unfair stereotype if you like, but Snowboarders are overwhelmingly the most reckless sliders on the hill and the biggest danger.
The race kids ski fast, as do a lot of good skiers at Berkshire (you should see the UMASS team. when they are training every weekday, it's impressive), but I look to see who is in control of their turns. Just being fast doesn't mean you are inordinately dangerous and out of control.
Anyway, each patroller does his own thing, and most of us are there to help and administer timely first aid. BUT, basically we'll corral out of control skiers and talk to them (provided they are reasonably receptive and polite, it's a pretty gentle talking to), if they are noted repeat offenders or very confrontational, they get the boot-sometimes for the season.
The one place where I am much tougher and direct is coming into the lift lines, the base area and most importantly on Green Trails. I am of the mind that high speed on expert trails is fine, but often those who suck at skiing (and more specifically snowboarding) but want to go really fast and at the edge of control rip down green and blues because they can't handle those speeds on the blacks. These guys get a quick and tough warning and get booted off in a hurry. Beginners and families have an absolutely right to comfortably enjoying green trails and strive to uphold that.
But, like I said, this is a much much bigger problem just about anywhere else -you can't even begin to compare Berkshire To Blue Mountain….we have no Jersey, NYC/LI/ Greater Philly aggressive d-bag culture (or crowds), none of it--it is entirely a much more respectful and cultured crowd. Honestly.
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Post by danboisvert on Sept 9, 2014 16:23:04 GMT -7
Dan, One aspect of skiing that scares me is racers doing GS speeds on trails open to the general public. It's among the reasons why I avoid weekend skiing at my home hill. Especially in the early part of the season, limited terrain and high skier density is an accident waiting to happen. Our junior race teams wear distinctive "Blue Mountain Racing" team jacket, and, IMHO, they are dangerous. The racer community constantly complains about the skiing of others (especially boarders) while on black terrain, but, they contribute more than their share of issues. Control at speed is a fragile when others come into your intended line and once your at 40 mph there is not a lot of time or space to get back into control. Perhaps I'm more sensitive to this issue at my mountain has narrow trails and high skier density. Frequently, I can hear them coming from behind, I just pray that something does not happen and am relieved when they pass. The racers I'm referring to from WVA are well inside their envelope, and mostly cruising back to the lift after each training run. GS skis have a pretty high cruising speed, but it's not like they're skiing at race speeds, and I've never worried about them at all. They usually ski single-file, make turns, give others plenty of space, etc. It sounds like Blue Mountain is more dangerous than the places I like to ski, and it sounds like the coaches need to get their kids under control. At Waterville, I've watched coaches discipline kids for all manner of infractions--mouthing off, being a brat to the lifties, etc. They're very conscious of their relationship with the hill, and work to make sure their kids don't jeopardize it. It's a very pleasant place to ski, as long as you're not there on one of the big holiday weekends when all the joeys show up.
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