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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 15, 2014 19:40:06 GMT -7
Chain wasn't worn (and that was one of the things I checked), and is shifting fine now. One of the side plates came off the pin. It hung up In the cassette enough that I couldn't pedal, but the chain stayed on the sprockets, so no real drama.
I didn't check,but it may well have been user error, the pin that I pressed in when I adjusted the chain. I was playing with Shimano's new 12-30 road cassette last summer, as opposed to the 11-32 10 speed Mtb cassette I had been using. Wound up using the big gears from the Mtb and the better spacing of the smaller gears from the road cassette to make a 12-32 with good spacing in the middle of the cassette, and then took a link our two out of the chain.
My other thought about tubeless in general is that you won't get "sudden" flats like you do when a tube gets punctured. More likely to show up as a slow leak I would think, maybe with the nail or thorn still in the tire.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 8:07:47 GMT -7
Yeah, I didn't expect you would leave any part of your bikes untested or inspected for too long. Good that no injury resulted. I'm not sure whether you can buy new pins for Shimano chains, to be used when breaking them down and reinstalling. I don't think I've ever done that with a Shimano. SRAM powerlink is easy - just put in a new connector. I seem to recall seeing Shimano spare pins with break-away tabs at a bike shop. Worth checking out.... I will let you know how things work out with the tubeless thing. The tire is still tight as a drum, now almost 48 hrs. after installing it, and still with no sealant. This is looking good! Now I'm wishing the Slant Six on the rear would hurry up and wear out so I can convert that wheel too!
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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 16, 2014 17:32:12 GMT -7
Yes,you can buy Shimano pins in packages of four. Handy to have, since only one pin comes with a new chain. You know, Sir Viking, you really don't have to use up the Slant Six. Call it an "emergency backup" and just upgrade to your new superior solution.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 4:19:11 GMT -7
You know, Sir Viking, you really don't have to use up the Slant Six. Call it an "emergency backup" and just upgrade to your new superior solution. Hmmm....I had thought of that. The Slant Six is so darn good as a rear tire, though, I'd be loathe to take it off. Grips like a mad thing on any surface, even damp clay and roots on a steep climb. Pretty impressive for a skinny 2.0" tire. Besides, I'm not noticing any weird behaviour back there, running it with a tube (as a front tire it was not my fave, due to its steering turn-in trait). I'm able to go down to 35 psi with it on the rear, which makes it plenty malleable in rough terrain. Furthermore, I still have a second Slant Six on hand - the 2.2" that I just took off the front - which has plenty of tread left. So I'm rather reluctant to shelve two perfectly good tires. Neither of them are rated by Kenda as being sealant compatible, and I have read that Stans does not play well with these. Not sure about Bonty, Hutchinson or Geax sealants, which use different formulas. Something to look into and experiment with perhaps....Hmmm.... (we need a scalp scratching icon here) OTOH, I suppose I could donate them both to my daughter's boyfriend -- the way he thrashes his 29er around, he'll have blown through his new Schwalbes by September. If I did switch, and considering how well the XR3 went on and is holding air, I'd be inclined to stick with Bontrager for a rear tire. But I'm not sure Bonty has a fast roller like the Slant Six, which can also grip as well. Their XR2 might serve -- it looks somewhat like a Conti X-King but with square knobs. I will check it out. It's on sale right now at my local Trek dealer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 4:27:15 GMT -7
Back to road tubeless: is this something you would recommend to a casual rider? In other words, will a not-so-serious rider with little interest in fussing with mechanical bits do well with this? Or is the setup and maintenance going to be a turn-off? (I'm thinking of a particular friend here)
Also, if someone (a different person in this case, who is more mechanically engaged in the sport) were looking to buy a new road bike, should he be looking for tubeless-ready wheels as a purchasing criteria? Is there that much benefit that this should be a priority?
Curious to know your thoughts on this...
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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 17, 2014 6:38:15 GMT -7
That is an interesting question, but I think my answer to both would be no, depending to some degree on them. I reserve my right to change my mind, however.
A lot of bikers just carry a tube or patch kit and pump and tire levers and do just fine, but I never did. When I was doing shorter rides I just accepted that IF I had a flat I might have to call a taxi or walk if there weren't a bike shop close by (and I did a couple of miles in bikes shoes several years back). Accepting that tradeoff worked well - for me. Stopping to fix a flat would have ended the day anyway.
I think road tubeless was simplified by having already done it with the mountain bikes.
I do think that upgrading wheels and tires will be a big improvement for any New bike, but for a newer rider I would focus them on wider wheels and 25mm or 28mm tires that you can run at lower pressures, and I still love the Conti 4000s for a combination of low rolling resistance and flat resistance (that's what I have on Lynn's bike).
Having said that, I don't ever plan on going back to tubes because I love never worrying about flats. I was 35km (20 miles) from my car when I hit a small stump in the middle of a rail trail 2 years ago. Just as I saw it, I thought it would probably destroy the tire. It left a small piece of wood in the tire for quite a while, but the sealant sealed around it instantly, and I just kept going. That surprised and really sold me.
Maybe the criteria for tubeless has more to do with frequency of ride and/or where. How much of an inconvenience is a flat, how often do you have them, and how far are you from support.
I personally have not had a road tubeless tire seal as well as your mtb experience. They have all sealed well enough to ride today and tomorrow. By the third day they would need air. With sealant I could miss a week of checking, but I air up for every ride anyway.
An interesting question. Another concern, they won't get much tubeless support from most bike shops. I haven't seen tubeless road tires in the shops.
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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 17, 2014 6:43:13 GMT -7
On the other hand, if they are an incessant gear whore who enjoys fiddling with stuff, then they will probably get there on their own. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 7:31:49 GMT -7
On the other hand, if they are an incessant gear whore who enjoys fiddling with stuff, then they will probably get there on their own. :-) Ha! Good one. Person "A" is not such a guy, but Person "B" is getting close to being so. Personally speaking, if and when I ever buy a road bike, I think this is something desirable, but the challenge will be to find a wheel strong enough (ie. high spoke count) for my weight that is also tubeless-ready or at least easily convertible, and to find wider TR tires with a versatile tread pattern for light gravel, and wet and dry pavement. I'm not even sure such a tire exists. But, your advice is well taken, and I will not be punting this to these guys. Re. wider road tires, I am somewhat surprised that it has taken so long for roadies to accept that wider tires and lower pressures actually help to roll faster. And are much safer too. Seems to me that this has been dogma in the MTB world for many years but has taken time to transfer over. Oh well, I'm not dialed in to the road riding world, so not familiar with some of the prevailing mentalities, Interesting topic, to be sure. Thanks for the insight and sharing your experiences. If I end up doing more on my mtn. bike with tubeless, I will let you know. Edit: a quick look at Hutchinson's site showed that they seem to have done some pioneering work in the area of road tubeless, and have been into it for many years. And they post a list of compatible wheels too. Good on them! They will be the first I will look at if I end up with a road bike.
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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 17, 2014 9:38:16 GMT -7
I have read (and believe) that tread for road bikes is unnecessary, even on wet roads. The purpose of tread on car tires is to provide a void for the water that gets squeezed out from under the contact points. The width of a road tire and the contact patch is so small that the water just gets squeezed out from under the tire.
And yes, Hutchinson (with Shimano) were the initiators for the UST tubeless standard and Hutchinson has by far to most tubeless selection. I don't know if they are the supplier of tubeless to any other vendors. At this point, I agree with you that TLR (tubeless ready) makes more sense than the extra weight of UST (true tubeless).
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Post by livingproof on Jul 17, 2014 10:24:27 GMT -7
Back to road tubeless: is this something you would recommend to a casual rider? In other words, will a not-so-serious rider with little interest in fussing with mechanical bits do well with this? Or is the setup and maintenance going to be a turn-off? (I'm thinking of a particular friend here) Also, if someone (a different person in this case, who is more mechanically engaged in the sport) were looking to buy a new road bike, should he be looking for tubeless-ready wheels as a purchasing criteria? Is there that much benefit that this should be a priority? Curious to know your thoughts on this... My thinking continues to be that road tires, with tubes, are best for most riders. What I am fussy with is the type of tire, as, I'm very happy trading some performance for increased flat resistance. For the past 2 years, I've been riding 700x25 Conti Gatorskin tires, and, have had zero flats. Gatorskins are legendary for not blowing out. My experience with Conti 4000s tires was a disaster. They flatted very easily, and, were destroyed while rolling to a stop following blowout. The $120 dollars spent to purchase them was a total waste, and, still burns my memory. Perhaps I overinfated them, but, I was doing what a bike shop pro, who loves them, told me to do. I don't share Jim's game plan of walking home or calling a cab should a flat occur. It's so easy to carry minimal tools, plus, a spare tube. My bag includes a spare pair of reading glasses. The biking community is more than willing to help when anyone flats, but, nobody carries the tools to reseal a tubeless. Call me old school. When buying a first road bike, your rims and tires will, typically, be whatever the manufacturer puts on, so, if you choose Trek, then Bontrager is what you get. For a casual rider, or, like me, in it for mostly training, it's not a big deal. But, I'd think about changing to at least 25mm tires and/or flat resistant tires as a first upgrade. And, yes, don't ride them at 120 psi because the label on the tires states that is the max pressure, especially if you are a bigger man. I've no issue with the aftermarket rim/tire selections made by serious cyclists, but, it's a pricey upgrade. At my stage in life, my motor is becoming more of the limiting factor, and, no equipment is going to let me ride with someone who can ride all day at a couple of MPH faster than me. My primary concern when selecting a new road bike to match it's comfort level to the roads the owner typically rides, that, may mean a carbon frame for rough road rides. My Al. frame works pretty well on the roads I ride.
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