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Post by superbman on Feb 26, 2014 8:25:59 GMT -7
It's a case of the high standards that I aspire to. Whenever I ski, something is being practiced whether I choose to or not ... and practice makes permanent. Therefore, I choose to decide what gets made permanent. In non-athletic endeavours, I usually float effortlessly to the top. But I was one of those guys who was always picked last for teams in gym class. So being able to do something athletic, courtesy of PMTS, and do it better than many who have skied their whole lives is pretty cool.I know exactly where my skiing stands, and I am friendly with several examiners and level 3 instructors and know their individual turns intimately. But I also know several serious amateur students of PMTS who ski radically better than them or me. So by my standards those examiners and instructors and I are all still poor skiers. It's lucky for you that you never took physics from me. I abhor grade inflation. Teachers like me are why university physics courses are graded on a curve ;-) I'm deep into ski technique because that's how I personally maximize my expected total lifetime ski fun. 1. I've never needed luck in any course I have ever taken on any topic. And, more pointedly, as a Professor, I've never had to inflate grades either. But, then again, that's because my students typically learn the content I teach. Which, is great, considering that is the job of a teacher. If a large number of my students kept falling below the course standards, so much so that the larger educational institution had to inflate the grades for the whole discipline to offset this, then I'd take that as a sign that I'm in the wrong profession and that I am poor at my job. I certainly would take no pride in that situation. Sorry, but that strikes a sour note with me and I've heard some of my more suspect colleagues make similar boasts over the years. 2. I'm not following you here…You aspire to high standards, but looking at the level you consider 'poor skiing' they sound unattainably high (probably like your grading system). How old are you? Are you only in your late 20's or quite a bit older? Will you one day, within your 'high standard no inflating system' shake off the shackles of being a 'poor skier?' Do you imagine you'll have athletic and physical abilities in your mid 50's (or 60's) that you don't have in your mid 40's? I don't get how your constant practice and delving into the depths of ski technique maximizes your 'expected lifetime of fun'. How can that mindset maximize 'fun', if for most of your skiing lifetime you have will continue to think of your skiing as 'poor.' AND, if your self-evaluation is as accurate as it is unflinching, then maybe there is something wrong with your overall approach. 3. I wonder if the real truth is the bit about being picked last for athletics and now actually enjoying some communal accolades in a recreational pursuit. Skiing is a great sport for the athletically inhibited, kind of like road biking (the number of strong adult roadies I know who couldn't throw a baseball 60ft accurately is staggering). Of course, the best skiers I've met were always excellent all-around athletes for most of their lives, but they were involved with competitive skiing young and at some point it grew larger than other pursuits. Yet, I've met a number of adults who discovered skiing and found a path to athletic enjoyment that had eluded them for much of their lives. That's not a knock, that is an accomplishment. But it suggests, as does the constant reference to one's positioning relative to other skiers, that how others see you matters a great deal to your enjoyment. And I wonder if that is at the heart of so many 'preemptive' self-deprecations posted here, there and everywhere. I think that's why I always see them as so jarring and contrived. I don't believe them at face value. I know who rips and I know who doesn't, but somehow, that knowledge doesn't factor into my self-assessment, or any assessment of being a good skier. And not to ignore Dan's post: I think I share his experience almost exactly (and Magic is a great place to house these examples). When things get a little funky, I do, consciously, draw up what I've learned or practiced to correct the situation (and it's funny, but feet pull back in bumps is the big one for me as well!). But then I let go again. The learning never disappears,and like all-well learned lessons is just beneath the surface ready to call into action when needed. But the 'no-grade inflating' coach's eye remains closed. Final note, I'm a little bummed about the hard refreeze across the Northeast (I mean, damn, but Saturday and Sunday were awesome deep Spring Days here in Southern New England!). I don't even like to think about my groomer skis after the first week of February, and the last 2.5 weeks have been a great cycle of Powder, crud, Spring snow…but I'm just not stoked about the cold, firm groomer part of the cycle. Give me powder or give me spring (and Hopefully the PNW will deliver one or the other or both during my mid March trip!). I guess the next few days are good ones to open up the inner coach's eye and work on technique until the mountain gets fun again. Then it's back to the inner 6 pack, a few inner buds and a plate of inner wings flown in from inner Albany.
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Post by Admin on Feb 26, 2014 9:46:46 GMT -7
Admin here: I've split all of the thread after Liam's original question into another thread. I've enjoyed most of the thread (up to this point), but it obfuscates the Original Poster's request. I think there has been a lot of honest insight given into each persons inner perceptions and motivations of their skiing.
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Post by JimRatliff on Feb 26, 2014 10:12:01 GMT -7
Yet, I've met a number of adults who discovered skiing and found a path to athletic enjoyment that had eluded them for much of their lives. That's not a knock, that is an accomplishment. But it suggests, as does the constant reference to one's positioning relative to other skiers, that how others see you matters a great deal to your enjoyment. And I wonder if that is at the heart of so many 'preemptive' self-deprecations posted here, there and everywhere. I think that's why I always see them as so jarring and contrived. I don't believe them at face value. I know who rips and I know who doesn't, but somehow, that knowledge doesn't factor into my self-assessment, or any assessment of being a good skier. superbman: An interesting hypothesis, but for me not a match. I was never athletically challenged, at least not until I got old enough that my reflexes began to slow; and the self deprecation is somewhere part of my nature. Maybe because I am inherently insecure? But I will say that, for me, the assessment of other skiers doesn't matter much. Number 1, most of them don't know the type of skiing I aspire to, so their approval is meaningless. Number 2, those that do also understand the work required to get there. And this gets back to the original point you asked. What is good skiing? I might add another question, why is it important to some to be perceived as a "good skier" and what does it matter? Is it the person that needs to be perceived a "good skier" that is insecure or is it the one that is a bit self-deprecating (or honest) about the limitations of their ability. Still, a pretty interesting topic, and I'm sorry that you find the self deprecation in my selfie's "jarring and contrived".
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Post by gary on Feb 26, 2014 10:13:32 GMT -7
Hmmm.....having never graduated from any college with any degree...for 35 years having owned my own real estate development co, building offices, apartments, houses etc......I always chuckle when I hear the teaching analogies...AND I wonder how much hyperbole is bantered about on forums like these. College requires you learn something after all...you ARE graded, and dam it, someone is paying for it.... AND your opinion rarely or never matters, so ya suck it up, graduate and go forth into the paying world to seek your fortune.
Now arises the opportunity and luxury of free choice...it's on us to seek what we want to achieve. Skiing is one of those challenges (like golf) that I will never master but I WILL continue to strive to be the best skier I can. Just like all you guys...it's in our DNA!
I have been fortunate to ski with, behind and in front of two of the best teachers I've ever encountered...I will never ski at the skill levels that those abnormal skiing genus's ski at...BUT I can SKI with them and have a blast. I am realistic about where my skill sets are and always, always trying to improve. At 64, (same age as those teachers) I'm skiing better now, more fluid, more conditions and confident than ever before. BECAUSE as those great ones stated..."it takes a thousand turns to ingrain a movement, to make it your own"! Each time I'm on snow....that feeling of owning something just FEELS that much closer...and I love that. I'm on my 997 pole touch and therefore it's ALMOST perfect!
It's nice to see with all the responses here how much personal gratification all here get on snow.....no matter what skill level!
Unless you are a serious racer, is there really any reason to grade yourself? Having realistic goals based on an individuals motivation, how much time spent on snow, physical skill sets, and discipline, are probably key factors in any skill sets we wish to improve on. As for time on snow....that could be just experiencing and adapting to various kinds of terrain, watching and seeing how the best ski that terrain, or taking your new skill sets and applying them so as to reach the 1000 applications!
AND YES....pow is perfect....but as for the cold we've been experiencing in the East (upstate NY for me)...certainly the snow has been firm and fast....BUT...after 90 minutes our mountain starts having this freakn' fantastic sugar snow...oodles and piles of it. AND that for me, is the next best thing to skiing powder. Hope you all are finding those perfect days to lay down whatever lights your fire!!!
Cheers, G
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Post by JimRatliff on Feb 26, 2014 13:25:18 GMT -7
Ahhh, Gary raises an INTERESTING point about golf. I don't play, but how many of you that do would describe yourself as a "good" golfers. My guess would be that the assessment of golf ability by the knowledgeable would be quite similar to the assessments of skiing ability, and for many golfers the frequency of tutelage is pretty similar as well. The advantage that golf has is it's built in objective evaluation system -- every golfer knows his handicap. (and most of them are working diligently one way or another to get that number down). (And I've heard that if there is money on the table most of them will try to represent their handicap as higher than what it really is? ) So it's not skiers, it's just men.
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Post by ToddW on Feb 26, 2014 16:00:02 GMT -7
Liam,
1) I've got a drawer full of letters to the dean etc. from students calling me the best teacher they ever had and plenty of nominations for "teacher of the year" type awards. I even have a letter from a student who transferred to another university who wrote me a glowing letter upon her graduation a few years later thanking me for my part in her eventual success. When I moved into industry, I encountered former students who all were pleased to cross paths again with me. Adhering to high standards shouldn't be a problem, at least not at an elite institution. And it wasn't for me.
2) I said poor. Not wretched or appalling or abysmal. I'm not a professional skier and neither are those examiners and instructors. Why should it be surprising that we're poor performers at something other than our chosen profession? What matters is that we have fun doing it. If we also get a kick out of improving our performance, so much the better.
3) My so-called "self deprecation" is not a way of fishing for compliments. It's an acknowledgement of reality. Are you familiar with Landau numbers that were used by Lev Landau to rank the world's top performers in his field? At first, they are ego crushing. But they are a realistic way of viewing ability.
How others see my skiing matters not at all to my enjoyment. I already listed above what I enjoy from g-forces to majestic views. Good thing too since many other skiers think I am crazy for tending towards narrower skis and balancing on one ski at a time! I am sometimes concerned about how I see others' skiing and what I can learn from them good or bad ... but that concern is flipped around the other way. Can't help it; I'm genuinely curious about how other skiers address the same challenges that I face on a given day.
It's a free country. You're free to disbelieve anything. And to question the intellectual integrity of so many posters whom you consider jarring. Personally, I tend to harbor doubts about skiers who brag loudly at day's end in the bar about their double diamond exploits and their expert level skiing (on fleet rental skis.)
I am unaware of having received any "communal accolades."
I'll fix that right now. Forthwith, all ski forum posters everywhere shall receive a trophy and twelve ribbons and be everywhere known as a strong skier.
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Post by ToddW on Feb 26, 2014 16:02:11 GMT -7
I'm on my 997 pole touch and therefore it's ALMOST perfect!
Gary, Savor those next 3 pole touches! The journey may be more fun than the final destination Todd
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Post by ToddW on Feb 26, 2014 16:05:44 GMT -7
LivingProof,
Sorry to have fouled up your thread. FWIW, I think you would enjoy a camp and would walk away with useful "homework" if you want that. Just don't tell them where you got the trophy and ribbons from....
Todd
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Post by gary on Feb 26, 2014 16:52:13 GMT -7
OMG Todd...what comes after mastering the perfect pole touch? What will I be in search of next....too funny!
I find I'm loving the journey!
Best, G
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2014 17:44:33 GMT -7
OMG Todd...what comes after mastering the perfect pole touch? What will I be in search of next?....too funny! I find I'm loving the journey! Best, G Why, the perfect hip wiggle, of course. And Hansi here will be your coach.
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