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Post by meput on Feb 23, 2014 11:58:38 GMT -7
Livingproof wrote in the "Tips for HSS Blue Camp" thread (http://peakskierzone.proboards.com/thread/36/tips-hss-blue-camp)
"Bumping this thread with a request for meput and/or Smackboy to offer any insights on how your camp has affecting your daily skiing in the weeks since your camp. Did you leave the camp with specific areas to work on? Does your skiing now reflect improvement in the one or two areas that you hoped would improve?
Thanks in advance. PMTS learning is a life long journey, let me admit that I'm always moving from one concept to another in the search for better skiing."
Rather than lengthen an already lengthy thread, thought this subject warranted its own thread. There are other forum members who have attended PMTS camps, some multiple camps, and I am sure we each have our own take away thoughts, story, and changes to our skiing.
I am going to give this some thought. Also talk to a couple of people that I ski with for their thoughts on how my skiing may have changed. HH has strong feelings about our own perception of our skiing.
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Post by lynn on Feb 23, 2014 12:34:09 GMT -7
A quick replay to LP:
I have taken 4 camps. The first camp was almost a loss for me due the poor equipment I had. I did get new boots which i found so painful on my toes, that i could barely concentrate on the class.
In fact, Diana told me the next year that she was surprised, but pleased that i returned.(some of my toe pain is because of a long held, bad habit of turning my toes up)
I was given the tools at these camps to work on my most important issues. I had a serious wedge, extension, BTE reliance etc. THe next year my skis were the iC 160's which made implementing the drills and tipping needed to begin the transformation to better skiing.
As you have seen, it is a work in progress. Each camp I feel that I come away with the 2-3 most important movements of my skiing to work on. What does happen each year, is one does NOT start from where you left off the year prior. You forget a lot of the movements you felt you had down.
Getting feedback from other pmts skiers is helpful, but when in the company of coaches, the difference between skier friends and a coach is exponential. Jim and I try to critique each other at times, but often we are missing the SMIM. (single most important movement) that needs to be practiced in order for the next to fall into place.
As someone with an analytical mind and reader of pmts movements, I think you would be able to understand the physics of pmts more easily than many others. But, as with many of us, actually making those changes feels awkward, weird and uncomfortable and the desire to back to that place of comfort (tall skiing, extension, lack of flexing etc) is hard to resist. UNTIL you get that moment of epiphany.... And then you never want to go back to the old movements. You just want more koolaid.
IMHO, of course. Not such a quick reply after all. See you at camp next ski season?
Lynn
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Post by meput on Feb 23, 2014 14:42:30 GMT -7
I found the Blue/Dark Blue Camp to be interesting in that all the campers were working on the same things, no matter the level that they were skiing. The stronger skiing groups were doing many of the same drills that the less advanced skiers were doing. But when you think about it, it makes sense. HH has broken it down to the 5 essentials, which are taught from the beginning. As you get stronger on applying each essential, the weakest one (or SMIM) will need improvement to stay up with the other 4 essentials. Therefore everyone is working on the same movements, no matter their individual ability to apply the essentials. Most of the campers had a SMIM that they were working on through out the camp. Mine was to maintain counteracting through the release, transfer and engage phase. I tend to rotate and square up my shoulders with the pole plant on finishing my turns to the right. This has been a mental focus for me since the camp. I still do not have this under total control. My left hand will still extend and bring the left shoulder forward (rotate) with the pole plant when I am thinking about terrain (steeps, bumps, ice, etc.) or watching other skiers to ski safely. I will take away my right to pole plant when I sense rotating and go back to skiing with the pole push position/drill. Am I doing better at controlling this problem? I hope so, but video or being watched by a PMTS coach would be the only way to confirm. Without attending the camp, I would not have thought my tendency to rotate with pole plant was even a problem. I also would not know how to address the problem. LP, I have many additional thoughts, areas of focus, etc. As I mentally organize them, I will continue to post. Oh, by the way, did get a new helmet due to camp .
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Post by ToddW on Feb 23, 2014 17:10:39 GMT -7
Meput,
Talk to ARothafel about that errant pole tap and rotation. He found a medical cure: amputation. He threatened his errant arm with removal if it didn't behave by a certain deadline.
LP,
Take a camp. Go with a childlike mind -- young kids know they make mistakes and they aren't ashamed to make more publicly as they try to improve. My 10th camp is in a month (hintertux, good skiing and better Bier). I plan to show off my full repertoire of poor skiing. In fact, I'm giving HH a sneak preview of my skiing next week.
--------
For the most part, I don't much care for my shadow's skiing. But when the sun came out this afternoon, he did a couple things that amazed me. I want those turns of his.
The fun is in the journey. Life would be boring if we could pay for a five day camp and suddenly ski like a WC ski god.
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Post by smackboy1 on Feb 23, 2014 20:50:04 GMT -7
Livingproof wrote: "Bumping this thread with a request for meput and/or Smackboy to offer any insights on how your camp has affecting your daily skiing in the weeks since your camp. Did you leave the camp with specific areas to work on? Does your skiing now reflect improvement in the one or two areas that you hoped would improve. . ." I only other time I've been on snow this season is 4 days at Stratton just this last week with the family. So I've not skied much at all, let alone practiced drills. I entered camp feeling like I was fighting my boots. By the time the boots were right, I felt like my skiing had completely fallen apart. At various points I had problems with every one of the 5 essentials. By the end of camp it was still in rebuilding phase. At one point on Day 4 HH asked me what I was going to work on during this one run and I started rattling off my list. He stopped after #3. At one point I think I had about 5 single most important movements. I had paralysis from analysis and had somehow devolved into a 2-footed-wedge-entry skier. I wasn't able to fully digest everything until several days after camp was over and I was going over my daily notes from camp and comparing them to my other PMTS lesson notes and the books and DVDs. It was exactly as Meput said. Our group spent a lot of time working on counter balancing and counter acting. Post camp I'm still following HH's admonition to double pole drag all the time while free skiing. I'm also much more hip aware. I practice counter balancing with my hips doing everyday activities e.g. in the shower, standing in line, loitering etc.. Skiing I'm much more attuned to CB and CA, especially HH's direction to keep the "bunny tail" pointed up the hill. Similar to Meput I have problems with rotating inside the turn at transition. I also try to visualize an imaginary PMTS Stick between my pole grips. Based on observing my own external cues I think I've improved since camp.
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Post by JimRatliff on Feb 23, 2014 20:52:47 GMT -7
Meput: Your observation that each of us has a Single Most Important Movement was very erudite, and that progress (or even eventual mastery) unlocks additional benefits (and need for refinement) across all of the essentials. My challenge is getting my weight forward (or my feet back), but it is definitely true that the more I am able to do it the more results I see from the essntial movements.
Smackboy1:
That is challenging to not get the opportunity to practice and play while the memories are fresh. I'm still in the "double pole drag" reminder to keep my shoulders level as well, coupled with focus on driving the inside hand forward to help with CA.
Todd: I have to admit that I really enjoy skiing with my shadow. Whenever he is around, it always feels like a bluebird day. And I seldom feel outclassed by his skiing since we both seem to ski at about the same level. And, what's really amazing is that watching his skiing helps me with mine. Sometimes when I observe a bad habit recurring in his skiing, it reminds me to focus on that aspect of mine. And sometimes when I see something good in his skiing, I am reminded that I continue to make progress in my skiing as well.
Of course, this is only when I talk him into skiing in front of me. When he makes me go first it is really hard for me to even watch his skiing. But when we are skiing side by side, he is never fast enough to ski off and leave me!
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Post by JimRatliff on Feb 26, 2014 9:48:42 GMT -7
Back to the original thread topic.
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Post by livingproof on Feb 26, 2014 17:36:47 GMT -7
Editor Note: I brought back Meput's observations which had been split into another thread, as, I find it very on topic. Below is written by meput. Wow, didn't expect this thread to wander into skier self esteem and how do we derive "fun" from our skiing. But so be it. Did I have fun attending my PMTS camp? Absolutely! I love to ski. I enjoy learning and improving my ability to ski. I enjoy having technical focus as I ski. Without focus, my skiing can get sloppy and bad things can happen. My PMTS camp was a learning experience and it has added to my technical understanding of how I desire to ski. My camp experience has added to my sense of skiing "fun". I had a great time such that I am already thinking about attending another PMTS camp. Did my attending the Blue/Dark Blue improve my skiing self esteem? Yes and no. Just being placed in HH's group was an honor and validation that I am doing something right with my skiing. But skiing with HH points out just how much room I have for improvement. Watching all of the instructors ski gives me inspiration to improve. Is there a problem with aspiring to ski like a PMTS instructor? I don't think so because I like the way they ski. Are all PMTS skiers self deprecating? I don't think so. I can be self deprecating at times and others not so much. When friends who have not skied with me inquire about my ability, I answer that I am a good skier, nothing more. Can I ski to fit HighAngle's definition of a good skier? Yes. Do I consider myself an expert skier? No. But that is where I derive fun in my quest to improve my ability to ski. Do I like the way that I ski? Yes, but I will like it even more as my ability improves. And, I will have great "fun" while I work on improving . Read more: www.peakskierzone.proboards.com/thread/101/#ixzz2uThjDq39
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Post by livingproof on Feb 26, 2014 18:33:21 GMT -7
In my adult life, I've taken extensive lessons in skiing, golf and tennis. All will agree that there is no magic, improvement comes in small increments, and, in many cases, we hit a wall that is very difficult to breakthrough. Still, to me, assessing the improvement following a week of intensive training is a worthwhile exercise. Athletic coaching is based in analysis of the physical movements and then developing a plan to modify those movements as to conform more closely with the movement patterns of excellent practitioners of the specific sport. I believe there is a disconnect between what the student seeks and the educational teaching model, at least for me. I take lessons with the hope of increasing my competency, which contributes to the pleasure derived from the sport. What I do know is that I will never achieve the movement patterns of exemplars of our sports. While I've never had a bad day on the slopes, I've had some very bad days on the golf course. Good technique does not always result in good outcomes. When asked, at the start of a ski instruction series, what my goals are, I would offer: leave better tracks on steep hard snow, be better in bumps, be more efficient in how I use energy as I fight gravity too much. At weeks end, these would be my tests for success. At the same time, the total experience factors in greatly. I've been in some very enjoyable programs, but, the improvement outcomes did not match my, perhaps unrealistic, hopes. I've also experienced improvement in the instruction that faded shortly thereafter....no surprises in that slippage.
Some programs operate under the "Keep it Simple Stupid" philosophy, others, offer up a lot and hope some sticks. Y'all can fill in the blanks about training programs you are familiar with against the two options. Organization,communication and feedback on performance are factors that play a major role in my satisfaction, again, no surprise. At heart, I'm a keep it simple person who has too many things going on in my head. Major change is very difficult. Still, if you always do, what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. Instruction will always fascinate me!
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Post by gary on Feb 27, 2014 9:25:02 GMT -7
Well stated Mike....makes ABSOLUTE sense to me too!
This dog is never to old to learn something new!
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