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Post by HighAngles on Nov 20, 2013 11:59:23 GMT -7
Dan - your comments on the Head GTO are cracking me up. I've never personally demo'd it, but the way you describe it sounds about right.
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Post by HighAngles on Nov 20, 2013 12:02:45 GMT -7
Very tight turn radius skis are great for learning about how the edges and ski sidecut work. However, once you're able to really get some angles that super tight turn radius ends up being a lot of work for a day of skiing. Sometimes that's what I'm looking for, but for the most part I've been gravitating toward skis with more relaxed SL sidecuts (14m-16m). You can still pop out quick turns, but higher edge angles aren't necessarily going to immediately rip straight across the fall line.
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Post by ron on Nov 20, 2013 12:03:55 GMT -7
not to piss on the cheerios here but when speaking of creating angles, you have to start with the athleticism of the person as well as the physical build of the skier. I'm 6' 170, In my avatar I'm in powder but my angles are pretty decent but I seriously doubt I can get much more out of that due to the length of my legs and some restricted flexibility in my one leg as a result of my crash 2 years back and a aductor/sports hernia repair on the same side. You can't just get out there and create these types of movements with a new ski; in a lot of cases, you can't due to your sheer size. IMHO people about the size of HA are the perfect sized skiers. So understand your limits and work within them or figure out how to maximize what god gave ya' Increasing flexibility, enhancing Procipriation and strengthening your core are all good starts. Hell, talking sh*t about ski's and such is fun though but remember, you can't buy a turn.
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Post by ron on Nov 20, 2013 12:06:58 GMT -7
Very tight turn radius skis are great for learning about how the edges and ski sidecut work. However, once you're able to really get some angles that super tight turn radius ends up being a lot of work for a day of skiing. Sometimes that's what I'm looking for, but for the most part I've been gravitating toward skis with more relaxed SL sidecuts (14m-16m). You can still pop out quick turns, but higher edge angles aren't necessarily going to immediately rip straight across the fall line. YES! more isn't always better nor what you want. I gave up driving sports cars years ago once I discovered that SUV's and pickups are so much more comfortable to drive. Figure out what you really want to ski and be honest about your abilities. Sometimes a super turny ski is just not the best choice for what you are going to ski or the time you plan to ski; likewise, neither is a ski that is too wide and too large of a TR.
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Post by livingproof on Nov 20, 2013 19:29:41 GMT -7
not to piss on the cheerios here but when speaking of creating angles, you have to start with the athleticism of the person as well as the physical build of the skier. I'm 6' 170, In my avatar I'm in powder but my angles are pretty decent but I seriously doubt I can get much more out of that due to the length of my legs and some restricted flexibility in my one leg as a result of my crash 2 years back and a aductor/sports hernia repair on the same side. You can't just get out there and create these types of movements with a new ski; in a lot of cases, you can't due to your sheer size. IMHO people about the size of HA are the perfect sized skiers. So understand your limits and work within them or figure out how to maximize what god gave ya' Increasing flexibility, enhancing Procipriation and strengthening your core are all good starts. Hell, talking sh*t about ski's and such is fun though but remember, you can't buy a turn. Ron, The body angles in your avatar are very impressive. In Harald's dictionary, that is called "counter balance". In my gym training sessions, my PT gave me some exercises to increase my body's ability to bend at the waist. I've got a long way to go to catch-up to you, not sure it will happen in this lifetime. B'TW, I concur that people with smaller bodies have an advantage in achieving the position. Harald has an amazing ability to bend his body, especially at his age. Here is a simple exercise to help the body feel and achieve this position 1. Stand next to a sturdy wall, feet together, shoulders at 90 degrees to wall. 2. raise your forearm, bent at 90 degrees, so that your forearm is just touching the wall and parallel to the ground, with upper arm also parallel to ground. 3. move your hip toward the wall until it touches the wall (the counterbalance position), then let hip return to centered position. Repeat 25 times in each direction. 4 as you progress, move your feet further from the wall, increasing the distance the hip must slide. I've said for years that it's about the archer not the arrow, I fully support with your "can't buy a turn" concept. Amen brother!
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Post by JimRatliff on Nov 20, 2013 20:21:06 GMT -7
A minor point here, but I need to be corrected if I'm wrong. In the exercise you describe and in skiing, we are bending in the hips, not the waist?? It's the femurs in the hip sockets?
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Post by livingproof on Nov 21, 2013 6:11:39 GMT -7
JIm,
Good question, it required me to do the exercise to answer. Yes, sliding the hips toward the wall is done via the ball and socket joint. Try to keep the hip that touches the wall elevated so that your hips remain somewhat level. One learning is how much work is required in a ski run to make this amount of hip movement. In quick turns, it's only a few seconds between a full left and right turn, so it's tiring. Ron must be in great condition.
I think the only way we can bend purely at the waist is to keep the hips over the feet, then tilt the upper body only. Or at least that's what my body tells me.
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Post by JimRatliff on Nov 21, 2013 6:45:11 GMT -7
So i could also adapt your drill to include counter acting by rotating my torso away from the wall at the same time (again, in the hips and not in the waist). I went a while saying my stiff back couldn't achieve that position before I realized it wasn't supposed to be in my back at all.
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Post by ron on Nov 21, 2013 7:41:59 GMT -7
good stuff folks: My take on this- doesn't mean you should! so in my world, we just call that countering or keeping the body moving into the new turn. You do this when ever you get up and walk around; try walking around a corner without doing this (you can't) In powder and soft snow anyway, its a combination of extending the legs while reaching downhill to the next turn (I ski groomed and bumps this way just varying the angle of body and match leg angle from horizontal to vertical) while buttering/feathering your edges as needed to direct the drift of turn; that's a very conscious move though. Its a active upper body movement in that as you are moving through the turn and into the transition (like a carved turn) you start the new turn by setting your edges releasing and retracting the legs, while driving your hand head and torso (I just think of hand and head together) towards the direction of where you want to go. It just flows (the degree of upper body movement depends on steepness, as it gets steeper, more input is required). I would say its both shifting of hips and bending of lower and upper spine. You can't get there without both. It may look like everything is static but it moves together largely matching angles. I do a lot of different stretches,including working on the ITB, aductors hip flexors , back and glutes in addition to quad and hamstrings. If you upper body isn't stretched it hampers that movement too. Another stretch I had to add was the Iliopsoas (sp) going from the lower abs to the inside of your hip up along the rib cage. It can be painful so go slow but its a really key muscle group. Jim, a strong lower back and at least a toned upper back and shoulders is VIP. If Dr approved, try some yoga poses for the back and start slowly and move slowly. Ask your trainer about doing butt-walks. They will strengthen your hips/glutes/aductors and help with movement patterns.
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Post by HighAngles on Nov 21, 2013 11:46:02 GMT -7
Here is a simple exercise to help the body feel and achieve this position 1. Stand next to a sturdy wall, feet together, shoulders at 90 degrees to wall. 2. raise your forearm, bent at 90 degrees, so that your forearm is just touching the wall and parallel to the ground, with upper arm also parallel to ground. 3. move your hip toward the wall until it touches the wall (the counterbalance position), then let hip return to centered position. Repeat 25 times in each direction. 4 as you progress, move your feet further from the wall, increasing the distance the hip must slide. I've said for years that it's about the archer not the arrow, I fully support with your "can't buy a turn" concept. Amen brother! You could actually adapt this exercise to incorporate the PMTS drill to work on how to properly release from this position. HH does it in the Essentials DVD (I think it's the Complete Upper Body, but it might be in the Flexing & Fore/Aft DVD). The idea is that to "return to centered position" you actually achieve this through flexion of the stance leg and the hips are kept level as they move back over your feet. This is one of the best exercises to truly understand how to do the release correctly. There should be no push-off from the hip or extension of the inside leg - it's all done through flexion of the outside/stance leg.
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