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Post by HighAngles on Nov 13, 2013 17:04:19 GMT -7
Does anyone know of any other "light weight" boots being sold or developed?? Jim, you might want to take a look at the new Salomon X-Max series. I looked at a pair at a shop in Banff recently, and was shocked by how light they were. Easily the lightest boots I have ever seen. Salomon actually provides the weight of their boots, and the X-Max 130 is 4170g for the 26.5 size. No other boot maker seems to post weight specs, including Dodge, so I can't give you a direct number to compare. The shop guys were pretty keen on their performance, saying they were very quick and agile. Interesting technology in those is the fully mold-able lower shell, similar to Fischer Vacuum. Said to give an excellent full-custom fit. Looks promising.... Review is here: ABBThe Salomon X-Max series generally works best for folks with a high instep. One of the more critical fit areas in a shell is your instep circumference (measured around the back of the heel and over the top of the instep). This is an area that's tough for boot fitters to change, but it can be "tuned" via liner and footbed choice. Bontex shims can also be used, but they impact the fit across the entire length of the foot.
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Post by meput on Nov 13, 2013 17:15:14 GMT -7
Meput, shame on you for making me aware of the price reduction!! What is leading you to try them? Jim, I've been intrigued by the Dodge boots ever since HH started talking about them. The positive comments by HH, jbotti, geoffda, and others have just increased my interest in the boot. The carbon shell theoretically solves some problems inherent with plastic shells (weight, flex change with temperature, plastic fatigue). I remember the improvement in support and decreased breakdown that the plastic shells/boots brought in comparison to leather boots. Hopefully a carbon fiber shell can bring similar advances in boot technology. The price and availability were the primary obstacles to the Dodge boots previously. With the price drop, plus heading out to Colorado for camp, the stars are aligned to at least give them a try.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 9:14:13 GMT -7
Perhaps that's one of the reasons the reviewers are talking about downsizing one shell size? Letting the molding process expand the shell and get a proper snug fit?
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Post by HighAngles on Nov 17, 2013 20:25:45 GMT -7
So I got a day in on my new Pro Tongue liners. This is a stiff liner. Make no bones about it, it's much stiffer than my ZipFit liners. So if you're not into the idea of making your boot ski stiffer then this probably isn't the liner of choice. However, if you're looking for a highly responsive addition to your shell then this liner will fit the bill. I found that the comfort of the tongue over my instep was wanting. Compared to my ZipFit liners, the Pro Tongue has some odd seam placement and ridges that managed to hit the top of my feet in places that didn't make me happy. So I think I'm going to experiment with some thin neoprene attached to the underside of the tongue to see if I can bring some comfort to the tops of my feet.
Surprisingly they also weren't nearly as warm as my previous Intuition liners. I'm attributing this to the density of the foam; denser foam = less air = less insulation from the cold.
I'm considering remolding a set of my Power Wrap liners in the Raptor Overkill shells just to see how much the liner is impacting the comfort and performance of the shells.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 6:32:03 GMT -7
Do these liners also make the boots laterally stiffer? Notice any improvement in edge grip on hard/icy snow? Or just stiffer forwards?
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Post by HighAngles on Nov 18, 2013 11:52:23 GMT -7
Stiffer overall - laterally and fore/aft.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 16:27:53 GMT -7
Stiffer overall - laterally and fore/aft. Hmmm...interesting. And good to know. When I switched boots from a Lange Comp Pro to a Tecnica Inferno, I lost a significant amount of edge grip due to the laterally softer Tecnica. The medial wall on the Lange (as it still is with current Lange models) was super-solid and thick and was responsible for that full-on grip. Just fantastic. Not sure if a new liner in the Tecnica will get me back some of that lost grip, but it's definitely worth a try. The Tecnica shell fits me perfectly with minimal work needed, so I am inclined to keep it and make it work. Thanks H-A.
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Post by livingproof on Nov 18, 2013 17:34:23 GMT -7
I've no experience with softer boot shells, but, with respect to lateral stiffness, my guess is that a liner cannot stiffen a soft boot significantly. It's common to read that the choice should be to get a stiffer boot, which can be softened, whereas, a soft boot can't be made stiffer.
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Post by danboisvert on Nov 18, 2013 17:55:35 GMT -7
This question might have an obvious answer, but why replace the liner in a new pair of B2's? What makes the Intuition better than the stock liner?
I picked up a pair of B2's last season, and am about to book a flight to get them set up, so I'm curious about options and reasons why.
I also tried to get into a pair of Dodges a local racer was getting rid of last season, and noticed they didn't seem to be holding up as well as I would've wanted. I'm not sure if delam is a common problem, but the overlap on his pair was delaminating where you open the overlap to get your foot in. Aside from them being 2 sizes too small for me, getting my foot in wasn't much of a problem. Folks whose feet aren't made of rubber might have more trouble.
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Post by ToddW on Nov 18, 2013 18:57:58 GMT -7
Dan,
I tried the stock liners on my Raptor 130 RD. Over time they grew to cause a lot of pain due to pressure on the 5th met head. When using the inside/little toe edge my foot rested on my heel and 5th met head. It was okay until the first day I skied in nasty crud and pounded my poor foot bones. From there, my feet grew progressively more irritated and inflamed even with ice and ibuprofen. (That's why I got antsy when we traversed the Mad River Glen lodge several times a couple years ago looking for the best table.) Switching to injected foam later that year was a godsend for me.
I have a narrow heel and midfoot and a somewhat wider forefoot which is what led to this pressure spot issue. Foam or intuitions spread the support out over the whole LTE. For a lighter weight skier like you, this may be less of an issue. Many skiers have no problem with the stock liners. For example, JMD had the shop scouting for a new "donated" pair for him, so I donated my B2's liners to him.
If the stock liners in your old 130 RD worked well for you, odds are your new liners will too since they're very similar.
There is a possible performance angle. When I switched from the Raptor stock liners to injected foam, my boots became yet more responsive to fine edging movements and I needed less lateral alignment correction. I only wore the B2 stock liners in the shop, but I suspect that the pro tongue has a similar advantage over them. Compared to airfare and lift tickets for your trip, these liners are cheap. Think about giving both the stock liners and the intuitions a try.
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