|
Post by HighAngles on Nov 11, 2013 7:05:38 GMT -7
So I molded my new Pro Tongue liners over the weekend. Based on my experience Intuition liners must be heated sufficiently for molding. I heated them at 250* F in a convection oven for 10 minutes. They came out quite floppy and easily compressed down to fit into my Raptor Overkill shells. Note that I actually had upsized the liner (sticking a 26 size liner in a 25 shell) and I was concerned about getting all that liner into the shell. Since these liners now have a rubber exterior sole I made sure to use some silicone spray on the soles and in the boot shell so that the liners would slide in easily after heating.
Once the liners completely cooled I found that the foam is quite firm compared to all of the other Intuition liners I've owned (over 20 sets). The tongue foam is firmer than ZipFit, but of course the ZipFit tongue also has a plastic layer over the front that adds more support. I really like that these new Intuition liners got rid of the foam from the sole of the liner. That always led to their liners feeling a bit "vague" when edging, but wisely Intuition has finally given in to the idea that people who buy this liner most likely are going to be using footbeds (custom or otherwise) and we don't need/want the foam in the sole.
The fit is typical Intuition - once molded these provide a glove-like fit. I haven't skied them yet, but that will come in the next week. Intuition liners usually take a couple ski days to "settle in", but I would never use the term "pack out" with an Intuition. They don't really pack out in the first 100-200 ski days. When they do start to "go" the foam breaks down and they die; a non-issue for ZipFits, but the Intuition liners generally win the warmth war.
I was foamed at the HSS shop last season, but only skied in those liners 5 days before I gave up trying to make them work. I like to know that a liner will adjust to my foot when skied and I just wasn't getting that with the foam liners.
Anyhow, I'm looking forward to taking these new liners/shells out for a spin and I'll report back my observations on their performance and fit when skiing.
|
|
|
Post by ToddW on Nov 11, 2013 12:42:13 GMT -7
I forgot to mention, but my pro tongue liner is upsized too. 27 liner in a 26 shell.
|
|
|
Post by meput on Nov 11, 2013 18:29:04 GMT -7
Glad people are happy with their current Zip-fits or prior experiences. I would be interested in the Intuitions as well, but only the Zips are available locally. You have to remember I am up in the back sticks of Maine . No party planned for the Zip-fits. Hopefully some fresh powder (or fresh snowgun powder) can be sacrificed for the christening of the Zip-fits . Dodge boots throwing people into the back seat? Is that a combination of ramp &/or cuff angle or what? I am scheduled to see Chris on Sat morning before camp, so I might be able to have time to demo them before camp. I don't need the Dodge boots to throw me into my back seat, I can do that all by myself without any help from the boots . I do worry about your comments re: tightness around the calf area. One of the selling points of the Dodge boots for me is the low weight. Assuming they work out, rather than bricks, I can use the Dobie's, with the freshly christened Zip-fits, to flatten the playing field. The Dobies are heavy enough to be used as boat anchors. Why do you think my skiing is so crippled. It's my frankenstein boots . Camp report? Who do you think I am? Geoffda? Not planning to take the laptop to camp. No way am I planning to do camp updates with my iphone. Sorry.
|
|
|
Post by ToddW on Nov 11, 2013 20:08:07 GMT -7
Do the airlines let you put boat anchors in your checked baggage? Maybe the zipfits count as flotation devices.
Didn't mean to scare you. The Dodge is even stiffer than your 150 Dobies, so fore-aft alignment is even more important. I know of one PMTS coach who never did quite get it dialed in and she switched back to plastic boots. If Chris foresees a problem from the initial fitting in the shop, he won't sell them to you.
Replace Geoffda? No. Mr. Da... is one of a kind. But a general shout out about how wonderful the Colorado snow (and beer) is and how we eastern skiers are missing all the good stuff might be in order. You don't need to mention that you'll be able to ski circles around me blindfolded afterwards ... we already know that.
|
|
|
Post by meput on Nov 12, 2013 14:34:38 GMT -7
Replace Geoffda? No way. I consider Geoffda's reports of his Harb camp experiences as some of the best forum threads on the PMTS site. Even it I wanted to give a camp report, there is no way I could hope to compare to his. Am looking forward to camp. Do they really teach you how to ski blindfolded? I tip over when I can't see - have done that in white outs .
|
|
|
Post by JimRatliff on Nov 12, 2013 15:01:35 GMT -7
Meput/Todd: So I am extremely intrigued by the Dodge boots, just for the weight savings alone. Give me some thoughts on their suitability for "an average recreational skier"; someone whose skiing is less performance focused and capable than either of you? Are they a performance skier boot only? Can they be used off-piste by me (I know a Harald can ski them there)? What was Diana's assessment that resulted in a no go for her? Do I remember that they are actually less cold than plastic boots, and that stiffness doesn't change with temperature? At $1500 saying no to the weight savings was easy. At a price close to a "normal" boot it becomes an interesting decision? Is putting them on and off as difficult as "other stiff" boots, or does the rear boot desigh obviate much of that stiffness effect? Todd, do you know if jbotti is skiing his most ofthe time, or only in select situations? Meput, shame on you for making me aware of the price reduction!! What is leading you to try them? Does anyone know of any other "light weight" boots being sold or developed?? The weight difference alone of the Dodges would make it so much easier for Lynn to carry my boot bag to the lodge for me, and I always feel badly watching her schlep all our ski equipment while I park the car. As long, of course, as it doesn't make my skiing worse (I know, hold the disparaging comments)!.. Any estimates on how many seconds they will cut from my time riding up the Magic Carpet to the beginner slope at Elk Mountain?
|
|
|
Post by ToddW on Nov 12, 2013 15:29:34 GMT -7
Intermediates and above who ski with a focus on edging skills can ski the Dodge boot to their advantage with the usual boot proviso ... provided they fit. If you're thinking "tip" then you're a candidate. The signage is the shop actually says something about intermediate and above, but that means PMTS intermediate not a more conventional intermediate. As I recall, you got heel lifts a year or two ago that helped your skiing a lot. I don't remember if they were inside or outside the boot ... and I'm not going back to the old forum to find out . If they were external, check with HSS about whether they can do that. Some alterations that are easy on plastic boots can't be done on Dodge boots. Diana's problem was getting fore-aft dialed in. But you don't have her long leg, petite torso configuration, so don't draw any conclusions from that. Dodge boot entry varies depending on whether you use the stock liner or do surgery on your liner. Geoffda and Jay both seem to get theirs on quickly. Other folks seem to require more effort. Since I can't ski them, I haven't paid a lot of attention. JBotti made a post about his Dodge experience on the old forum. The consensus seems to be they're worth whatever hassle it takes to get them on and off. If you're still curious, you could ping Geoffda and JBotti on the PMTS forum since they both ski on Dodge and you know both of them. If you like what you hear, give the skunk works a call and see what Chris suggests.
|
|
|
Post by ToddW on Nov 12, 2013 15:43:17 GMT -7
Am looking forward to camp. Do they really teach you how to ski blindfolded? I tip over when I can't see - have done that in white outs . You get your choice of three options: - blindfold
- dork-o-meter (known in polite circles as the hip-o-meter)
- the stick
If you choose the blindfold, the macho version is to surrender your ski poles first. Just repeat after me, "vision is highly over-rated ."
Formal clarification: no blindfolds are used at HSS camps. Dork-o-meters and sticks, however, are used. Skier safety is of paramount importance at these camps.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 18:38:21 GMT -7
Does anyone know of any other "light weight" boots being sold or developed?? Jim, you might want to take a look at the new Salomon X-Max series. I looked at a pair at a shop in Banff recently, and was shocked by how light they were. Easily the lightest boots I have ever seen. Salomon actually provides the weight of their boots, and the X-Max 130 is 4170g for the 26.5 size. No other boot maker seems to post weight specs, including Dodge, so I can't give you a direct number to compare. The shop guys were pretty keen on their performance, saying they were very quick and agile. Interesting technology in those is the fully mold-able lower shell, similar to Fischer Vacuum. Said to give an excellent full-custom fit. Looks promising.... Review is here: ABB
|
|
|
Post by JimRatliff on Nov 13, 2013 6:37:08 GMT -7
I forgot to mention, but my pro tongue liner is upsized too. 27 liner in a 26 shell. Meput: I'll mention that my Zipfit's are upsized compared to the shell size as well. I think my Head Raptor (like many boots) is actually the same shell for half sizes (so my 26 is the same shell as the 26.5). I don't remember the Zipfit size (or model), but it was either a 26.5 or a 27. The guys at Harb Ski Sytems initially tried the 26 size, and then moved to a larger size as a result of the fitting (that was included in the price of the liners). Jim
|
|