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Post by lynn on Sept 2, 2014 13:50:00 GMT -7
There are simply wonderful pics of 10-13 year olds at race camp at Mt Hood. These young folks look amazingly good. Great tipping, upper/lower body separation, counter balancing, counter acting; it's all there and easily picked out in the pictures. When I grow up, I wanna ski like them.
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Post by JimRatliff on Sept 2, 2014 17:31:57 GMT -7
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Post by superbman on Sept 4, 2014 8:00:13 GMT -7
The man knows how to develop good looking racers for sure.
I have a few friends who left our local mountain race team, and are making a real sacrifice in time, travel and money to train their kids at Waterville Valley, NH. Their results last year were stellar, and the parents were stoked. From what tehy've described it is a very PMTS focused race club program. I saw their kids free skiing at the end of last year, they looked incredible.
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Post by ToddW on Sept 4, 2014 16:01:36 GMT -7
The Essentials approach is part of the coaching at WV. The success shows on the clock. Geoffda posted about encountering the WV gang at A-Basin a couple years ago.
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Post by danboisvert on Sept 4, 2014 16:30:29 GMT -7
My goal is still to ski as well as the 12 year olds from the Waterville Valley Academy. I figure I've got 2 more years before I've been skiing as many years as they have, so I've got to get my butt in gear. Glad to hear your friends' kids are doing well there, Liam; it's a great program, for sure. Those kids kill it everywhere, in every condition.
Those kids in Harald's photos also look fantastic. It gives me hope that the future of racing in the US will be a little brighter.
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Post by superbman on Sept 5, 2014 6:26:23 GMT -7
Yeah, I figured they had a conscious application of HH's stuff, and like I said, the regional buzz is really, really positive on the race program.
I've never skied Waterville, my impression has been it's like Stratton with even more grooming, but that's based on anecdote and hearsay. How is Waterville as a Ski Area?? I ski so rarely in NH as it is. Basically, I make a Tuckerman trip about once every two years, and hit Cannon when conditions appear optimum (also about once every two years). Waterville worth a visit? What's it like if any of you guys and gals know?
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Post by livingproof on Sept 5, 2014 7:53:08 GMT -7
Among the many of Harald's blogs, it is insightful to read his analysis about ski race coaching and the roles played by US Ski Association and PSIA. I'd love to read an open discussion of his criticisms include rebuttal comments by knowledgeable USSA and PSIA members. I remain convinced that the Harb movement based instruction techniques are far superior to anything else I've read. I will never understand how an organization, such as PSIA, can develop technique using group consensus. I would argue that the best coaches, in almost any sport, use their individual analysis and systems to create world class competitors. For sure, if my child were a racer, I'd do my best to get Harb camp training. I know at my little speed bump home mountain, the racing instruction, while well intended, is very loosely organized and confusing to participants. If you ever ride a chair with HelluvaSkier, he will rant on this issue for a long time.
Waterville Valley has a special place in my ski memory. In my second year on skis, I went there early in December for a ski week that included 4 hours of instruction per day with Swiss instructors who were almost gods in how well they skied. I also did a ski race camp week years later, and, visited on two bus trips that I was the leader. After those two leader weekends, I swore I'd never lead 40 people on a trip again. No good dead goes unpunished. Looking at the trail map, it's not changed much in 25 years. My memories are vague, but, it's a small mountain,narrow trails and mostly non-challenging terrain. Not sure it's worth the trip, other than to reminisce about the old days. The main expert run was named True Grit, and, I remember when this intermediate youngster did his first real black terrain True Grit run as part of a group lesson on a very foggy afternoon. I was a proud camper at the bottom.
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Post by JimRatliff on Sept 5, 2014 14:03:17 GMT -7
I wound up reading one of Harald's blog entries where he was quite complimentary about several local skier development programs, and lauded the coaches for ignoring USSA and PSIA and focusing on developing top notch programs and skiers.
I agree it would be interesting to hear both sides, or an objective impartial summary of each side (but impartiality is likely hard to find).
Too bad I don't know enough to know how the current World Cup team developed.
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Post by superbman on Sept 5, 2014 14:30:46 GMT -7
The Tennis Coach my son works with often says 'The USTA is a Pimp.' Meaning, they only step in when a player has been developed by some other private coach, but then tries to pass them off as an example of their cohesive coaching paradigm. But the truth is, most talented and dedicated players are working with individual coaches (if lucky). He thinks that USTA really makes very little investment in training coaches, developing youth programs, etc. There are a lot of local groups that are nominally part of USTA, but they are exceedingly independent.
And, perhaps this lack of a system explains the continued dirth of Top 100 domestic Men's Talent (in spite of the fact, most to international male and female talent will eventually spend time training and developing here in the states) especially when compared to systems like Spain and France.
I wonder if it is a similar problem in skiing? Top athletes who are lucky to train with private coaches and eventually find their way to elite ski academies are the ring stars, but USSA muscles in and puts their moniker on a p[roduct that is largely the result of another coach's work.
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Post by danboisvert on Sept 6, 2014 7:39:55 GMT -7
Yeah, I figured they had a conscious application of HH's stuff, and like I said, the regional buzz is really, really positive on the race program. I've never skied Waterville, my impression has been it's like Stratton with even more grooming, but that's based on anecdote and hearsay. How is Waterville as a Ski Area?? I ski so rarely in NH as it is. Basically, I make a Tuckerman trip about once every two years, and hit Cannon when conditions appear optimum (also about once every two years). Waterville worth a visit? What's it like if any of you guys and gals know? Yay! A question I'm qualified to answer! Waterville is an awesome training hill, but it's not really a destination hill if you just want to ski. The people are way nicer than at Stratton and the trails are cut better, but it's groomer-heavy, and you won't ever get it confused with Cannon/Mittersill. I spent a few seasons skiing there every weekend, and don't think it's really your style. I think you could have fun if conditions everywhere were firm and a storm was coming in Saturday night, though. Hit Waterville and ski groomers Saturday, stay in the valley and enjoy the food and people, and then head to Cannon for a powder Sunday. Might be worth a shot to check it out, and see all the little rippers flying around. It's cool to see so many small people skiing so darned well. One thing I also like about Waterville is that there's no speed limit, as long as you're in control. There are so many good racers flying around on GS skis, skiing fast is just normal there. I've never had a patroller wave at me to slow down. It's nice. Regarding the application of HH's stuff, I'm not sure that's the best way to describe what's happening. My impression is that, in that world, it's not really "HH's stuff" so much as principles of good skiing that HH and some of his peers, who are experts in their own right, agree on. They may be stoked that HH consolidated a lot of it and put it into one book so they don't have to refer to an entire bookshelf as much anymore, but I wouldn't really describe it as HH leading the charge with a bunch of disciples behind him, as it seems to be in the recreational skiing world. As HH says, PMTS isn't a new way to ski; it's simply his way of describing and teaching what would otherwise probably be called "good skiing". I think what makes him and his stuff unique is that he's so focused on and accessible to recreational skiers. Racers in great programs already have access to this stuff; it's the rest of us he's helping. No comments on the PSIA/USSA thing. That debate is way beyond my pay grade.
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