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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 17, 2014 14:13:20 GMT -7
LivingProof: You may have captured the essence of the answer to Svend's question. For me, dealing with a flat tire in the middle of the ride would ruin the enjoyment of the ride - I would take my marbles and go home; for you it's no big deal or maybe it's an expected part of biking. I remember when you were describing how the seabirds dropped shell animals on the roads to crack them open, leaving the sharp edges for the passing cyclist. I would have been so frustrated by that I would have found somewhere else to ride.
I actually agree with your statement that tubed tires are best for most cyclists, but every time I pass someone at the edge of the road fixing tire I take considerable satisfaction in the fact that it's not me. I'm generally a pretty easy going, patient guy -- so I don't know why I feel that way about flatting.
The one flat I mentioned where I walked the bike the 2 miles back to the car (in bicycle shoes), I actually rather enjoyed the walking but I would not have felt that way about fixing the flat on the road (even if I had had the equipment). Any while we are delving into weird psychology, I didn't want a ride back either. It was a situation of my choosing, I didn't want a helping hand mitigating the consequences of my decisions.
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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 17, 2014 14:30:50 GMT -7
At my stage in life, my motor is becoming more of the limiting factor, and, no equipment is going to let me ride with someone who can ride all day at a couple of MPH faster than me. My primary concern when selecting a new road bike to match it's comfort level to the roads the owner typically rides, that, may mean a carbon frame for rough road rides. My Al. frame works pretty well on the roads I ride. The biggest difference in my current bike was a more upright seating position. From the factory, the steering tube was cut higher by an inch or so, and then I turned the stem over to raise it a bit more, and it made the bike so much more comfortable for me. I'm not a racer, being bent over the handlebars in an "aero tuck" isn't my favorite position (unless I'm riding against the wind). We also replaced the stem on Lynn's 10 year old racer bike so we could raise the handlebars a couple of inches -- she loves the change and her back and neck are much less bother than they had become. (and she may be 2/10's mph slower, but I don't think we care).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 20:54:43 GMT -7
It seems to me that there is no clear answer, Yes or No, as to whether road tubeless (or mtb, for that matter), is right for everyone. So much depends on their equipment as to whether it's an easy transition or a huge hassle. In checking this out for myself, had I not read about the good match between Bonty tires and rims, and had the Bonty tires been of inferior quality, I would never have even tried it. The fact that it seated and sealed so perfectly is a huge bonus. OTOH, I have read countless anecdotes of people fighting with tire and rim for hours or days, sealant mess everywhere, leaky sidewalls, tires burping air, tires blowing off rims, and all sorts of other tales of misery. This was a huge deterrent, to say the least, and made me wonder why anyone even bothered.
Bottom line, if there is a good match between tire and rim, and both are quality components that are carefully chosen, then it's a pretty safe bet that the setup process and long term maintenance will be almost hassle free. But if there is a mismatch, then it's an exercise in frustration, too much work for marginal benefit, and not worth the money and effort. That's why it was so refreshing to see a list of compatible rims on Hutchinson's site. Hallelujah! Why doesn't every tire manufacturer do that?
LP - I agree with what you say. Changing a tube, or installing a tube in case of a tubeless blowout, is no big deal, and I'm sure you could do it with your eyes closed. You can have a wheel off, tube out, new tube in, inflated and rolling again in less than 10 minutes. It's a cinch. So, tubeless or not, that's why I will always carry a spare tube, pump and tire levers. As an aside, most tire levers are worthless junk. To make the job easy, you need solid levers, preferably with a spoke hook to free up a hand; pre-coat the spare tube with some talc (do this at home, before you stash the tube in your seat bag) to make it slip into the tire and nest smoothly; put a couple of puffs of air into the tube to give it shape before putting it in; and Voila! Done. Piece of cake.
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Post by livingproof on Jul 18, 2014 5:55:21 GMT -7
Jim, It's funny how we both found the road tire solutions we seek, but, used two entirely different solutions. Hmmm, reminds me of ski selection differences. My broken shells on the road problem is a few weeks away, and, occurs when mollusks grow larger in late summer and the shell becomes harder and bigger. Thanks for reminding me to start looking out for the damn things.
With respect to your roadbike stem setuup and your personal comfort, I believe my bike is set-up somewhat similar to yours, that is, with the handlebars set up at about the same height of the seat. Watch the Tour De France, and they ride with the handle bars well below the seat height. I remember seeing a pic of how Helluvaskier set up his bike and immediately noticed how much lower his handle bars sit. It takes a lot of riding to adapt to the pro position, I doubt any good bike shop would set up a recreational rider in those positions. Relaxed Geometry is a good thing! The large selection, with different rises and lengths, of road bike stems really helps to dial in a comfortable position. But, we need to ride long rides frequently to figure out what works best. For the 20 or so mile trip that is my mainstay, fit is not so critical.
We probably should start a road bike fitting thread, anybody buying something new want to start it?
Svend, yup, we violently agree that changing out a tube is one of life's little downers. And, the worst part is having to take off a back wheel which means getting grease on the hands. Oh, what we go through with to stay fit. One of these days, I'll have to ride a real mountain bike, I'm close to a never-never on the terrain for which they are intended. My home ski mountain has invested heavily this year to create a mountain bike trail system. It looks pretty cool for those who like this terrain, more than a little scary for this roadie.
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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 18, 2014 11:33:33 GMT -7
Did I mention that we encountered a black bear on one of our recent trail rides?
I saw him before Lynn and began "forcefully" suggesting she stop, which she eventually did. He stared at us for a bit and then headed back into the woods on the other side of the trail. Lynn said she wasn't worried -- she figured that she didn't need to outrun the bear, she just needed to ride faster than me and didn't seem to feel like that would be a problem. Hmmmmm.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 4:36:13 GMT -7
We probably should start a road bike fitting thread, anybody buying something new want to start it?Svend, yup, we violently agree that changing out a tube is one of life's little downers. And, the worst part is having to take off a back wheel which means getting grease on the hands. Oh, what we go through with to stay fit. One of these days, I'll have to ride a real mountain bike, I'm close to a never-never on the terrain for which they are intended. My home ski mountain has invested heavily this year to create a mountain bike trail system. It looks pretty cool for those who like this terrain, more than a little scary for this roadie. If I buy a road bike, I will start your thread. But why wait that long? I'm sure there are a few here who could share knowledge and/or benefit. As for getting yourself on a mountain bike, nothing to be afraid of. Except bears. Start ambling on some easy doubletrack cross country trails, and just enjoy riding in the woods. If that's the only type of trail you ever ride, then that's just fine. It's pleasant and relaxing and fun...what's not to like? What you're seeing at your local ski hill is probably the kamikaze downhill crowd in full body armour. Yeah, that does look pretty wild. But then, some would say that about skiing. Just sayin'....
You made me chuckle when I read your comment about mtn biking being scary. That's pretty much how I feel about road riding. Too funny. I hear the stories about people being crippled or killed on road bikes, and I think "No way! I'm sticking with my mountain bike. Safest thing ever" Too bad you didn't live closer - I could teach you the basics and have you rolling on singletrack within an hour. That's not a boast....it's just that easy. Gary can vouch. He did it and had a blast. Actually, many skiing skills translate to mtn biking and vice-versa. It's great cross-training, if you're into that. Balance, absorbing rough terrain with the lower body (quiet upper body), looking ahead into turns and steering with the upper body, and much more... If you can ski well, and can handle a road bike, you can do well at mtn biking.
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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 19, 2014 6:10:20 GMT -7
However, unlike skiing, there is no lift to get you to the top of the next little hill. But I agree with the comment about the kamikaze crowd -- an accurate description and not us.
Our gut feel is that Mtb takes about 30% more effort for the same mileage. I sometimes use it in the city. Suspension and lower pressure tires are much more comfortable on pot holed city streets.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 6:00:15 GMT -7
Our gut feel is that Mtb takes about 30% more effort for the same mileage. I sometimes use it in the city. Suspension and lower pressure tires are much more comfortable on pot holed city streets. I'm sure you mean 30% more effort on pavement(?). In that, your estimate is probably close. And more if you have beefy tires with high rolling resistance and a heavier bike.
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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 21, 2014 8:32:18 GMT -7
Not pavement specific, because we seldom ride on pavement. More of an overall gut feel. On a level gravelly trail, I'll find that we are riding 11-13 mph, on a road with road bikes we easily ride 15-18. If the trail goes up a hill with loose rocks and washed out sections that require moving around through the ruts, speed will be 4-7 mph; road bikes for similar exertion would be 7-9 mph. We did 18 miles last week on good trails but with a lot of longer easy grades. At the end we both felt it was comparable to 20-25 road bike miles for a similar amount of exercise.
So my 30% number is the composite of a bunch of subjective experiences similar to that.
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Post by JimRatliff on Jul 21, 2014 8:40:01 GMT -7
I would say that the difference on paved surfaces is quite a bit less, maybe only 10-15%. On flat paved roads riding 14-15 "feels" aerobically comparable to 16-18 on the road bike? All subjective, of course. And, at some point, the road bike wind resistance increases the effort - seldom a concern with the mtb's.
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